Poll - Should Bush Be Impeached?

Should President Bush Be Impeached?

  • Yes

    Votes: 56 62.9%

  • No

    Votes: 62 69.7%

  • I'm Not Sure

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Total voters
    89
I'll take a few things you said about me with a massive grain of salt, Pabst, as I suspect you were being sarcastic.

I'm obviously not wanting any more wars, including a war with Iran.

I also think your comparison with murder rate in American Cities with the death toll in Iraq to be contextually flawed, and on a giant level. I'll leave you try and figure out why unless you really want an explanation.

Finally, I think you're being way too glib about the costs of the Iraq War. Some pretty credible people have tagged the cost in the trillions.

You can obviously feel free to disagree with them, but all I'd have to say to you in that regard is that the numbers don't lie, although people may:

"According to Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, the war is costing American taxpayers $2 trillion. Stiglitz believes the cost will reach $3 trillion. It must be remembered that the Bush Administration predicted at the start of the war that the war would be self-financing. They said it would cost $2 billion total to rebuild Iraq."


I don't know, though. Maybe you really do know more than some Nobel Prize-winning, hot shot economist.
 
This War will cost 2 trilllion in real expenditures and sunk costs and contingent liabilities if it's a dime.



Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

What I'm saying is Iraq is not a big fucking deal. Is that a hard concept? No, 800 Americans dying per year is NOTHING. Nada. Zilch. Capeche? it's the murder rate in Chicago. And the war won't cost 1-3 trillion. I know 50x more about the budget than you do (not a slam but I'm a Treasury trader turned one time Congressional candidate so i had to look it all up). The war has cost 550bil. MAYBE at the end of the day it'll approach 1 billion but that seems unlikely. It's virtually over. In 2008 dollars? Chump change compared to EVERY OTHER WAR we've ever fought. Anyone who thinks Iraq is some WATERSHED event in American history is a loser whiner. It makes me WANT to see some ass kicking war where we lose something like 9 million people. THEN you can tell me about the horror.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There may be a time in the next several years when people will long for the quiet days of the Bush years.

That being said yea I think it was a stupid war. But I'm an isolationist. I doubt YOU are. You're the kind of guy who'll be giddy when Obama kills some Iranians. Then you can drink some kool-aid and tell us how he went after the REAL enemy.:p
More...
 
If you judge the merits of a war based on deaths. How can you accept even one death?

Is the Iraq war ok if no deaths?
How about 1 death?
How about 10,000 deaths?

In a true war death only matters if it weakens the army.

Obama and the Dem are pushing to engage Afghanistan.
Do they think it would be less trouble then Iraq?
What happens when we reach 4000 deaths in Afghanistan, do they pull out. Why would they think deaths in Afghanistan would be less then Iraq.

At least once we do win in Afghanistan we won't have to deal with a Saddam/ Iran escalation.
This is why history will credit Bush for smart move into Iraq. In 20 years Iraq will be put into proper perspective as a very minor war with long term gains
 
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

There is only two outcomes.

Yes or no.

There weren't any.

Take the heat (who does that?) because you didn't find any or put some there to substantiate your claim and cover your tracks.

Or scenario three.

They found WMD and did not like what they found. Maybe incriminate someone, a country, that would serve no useful purpose in publicizing to the general public.

Bush takes the hit, integrity intact, buck stops here.
 
Quote from nutmeg:

Weapons of Mass Destruction.
There is only two outcomes.

Yes or no.
More...

I would list a third outcome, Intention.

Do WMD exist when, the plans exist , the parts are sacttered or used for othermeans, The sciencetist are diverted to other programs. but in the thoughts and past actions of the evil mind the bomb lives.

History is saved for those who see the parts, piece the puzzle then act to align into their own agenda.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

...If the economy tanks Obama will do something rash militarily. If unemployment soars he'll view a draft as a stimulus package for young workers. That's how these things start. Do you think if the Dow had been 14,000 in 02/03 we would've fought Saddam. No way. Bank on a draft though. Done deal by 2111.
More...
Your prediction is noted for the record. I will take the other side of that trade. And as a matter of context, let us define "rash" as what Bush did with Iraq. After all, such a "low" threshold can only help you win the bet.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:


Compared to what? This is a "war" that has cost only 4000 American lives and accounts for around 2% of the Federal budget.

Wow, ONLY 4000 American lives, glad to see you're true to you convictions about actually caring about America or its' troops, how sad.

This isn't even the biggest war being fought on the planet right now let alone some major historical event. More people die in Sudan each week than have died in 5 and a half years in Iraq.

Yep, and we spend lives and money somewhere else doing something stupid, I have to agree with you. No Iraq would have meant a $trillion we could have actually done some good for the World instead of something stupid.


Are you going to compare the cost and loss of life in Iraq to Vietnam? Or Korea?

Yep, that same old concern about America and its' troops. And Korea wasn't as bad as the Crusades either, so therefore who cares, right?


How about 90% less deaths in Iraq vs. Nam (in a U.S. that's 50% more populated to boot).

Ditto the above, Good Lord man!

How about Nam costing 12% a year in GDP. Let's not even talk about WWll where almost half a percent of America perished. Not to mention this war was fought with VOLUNTEERS.

Yes volunteers who signed up to engage in a real war, not one forced on them. And, by doing so, we are now completely vulnerable since even our Ready reserves are on 4th and 5th tours of duty. We are less safe now than any time in history.


Saddam attacked Kuwait. We kicked his ass. He surrendered. He signed an agreement with the U.N. stating no support of International Terrorism. Seven years later he was funding Hamas suicide bombers. The anti-Israel U.N. (Syria was a member of the U.N. Security Council at the time) told Israel to take a hike, so we did what the spineless U.N. refused to do. We got together with THIRTY other countries and got rid of Saddam. Now according to all reports Iraq is on the road back. Their oil production is the highest in history, their own troops are quelling unrest and for all practical purposes the "war" is over. No thanks to people like you.


Now for the big one. Yes, back in Desert Storm, when we had a good reason to go after Saddam and his army we completely deserted the hundreds of thousands loyal U.S. supporters who WE PROMISED to take care of. Yep, you guessed it, they ended up being massacred by Saddam. And, then we use those massacres as back up reasons for attacking Iraq again, and getting in the middle of their stupid religious civil war. Great move.
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c
 
Great post, c.

I honestly believe sometimes that middle america will have to be given the fat finger by the political class, deeper and harder, before they rise up and are willing to flip the tables upside down, clear the deck, and rebuild the republic.

What we need... is a little revolution.


You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
Ah

ah, ah, ah, ah, ah...

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
all right, all right, all right
 
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