Poll majority: Gays' orientation can't change

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

There has to be the joint influence of Father and Mother.

There is no scientific evidence of any kind to support the above claim.

One loving, sober parent is better than two who are cheating on each other, beating the kids collectively, using drugs of booze, etc.

No, an ideal world is where a kid gets love, nourishment, support, etc. and that can come from one parent, or not come from two parents.

Quote from indahook:

Children that do not grow up in a with a Father(Mother) are destined to be alot of things. But more often than not it wont be 100% normal. I know from firsthand experience. And have friends the same way.

Two moms or two dads raising a child is not natural or a single parent for that matter. There has to be the joint influence of Father and Mother. Centuries of psychology have proved that.

I praise anybody that adopts an unwanted child. Gay or straight. But to raise a child purposefully alone is a tragedy.

 

[indahook]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

There has to be the joint influence of Father and Mother.

There is no scientific evidence of any kind to support the above claim.

Ask anybody that has grown up in a single parent household if they are complete....





Have a good weekend. Time to go get some fresh air and waves!

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Ridiculous argument.

We find plenty of people who grew up in a "normal" household who don't feel complete.

People raised in a father/mother household family suffer no less trauma, in fact, it is often considered worse for a child to grow up in a family where the mother and father don't love each other, but stay together only for the "good of the kids" as the kids can sense the lack of love between mommy and daddy, which is terribly confusing, and the children often take in internally as they think they are the cause of the rift.

When you can make an intelligent argument, I'll take a look at it, until then your suggestions don't wash in the face of reality in America today.

50% failed marriages, 75% of spouses cheating with another partner, and lord knows how many folks who are taking prescription drugs for depression...

and you are worried about a single loving parent...

Quote from indahook:

Ask anybody that has grown up in a single parent household if they are complete....





Have a good weekend. Time to go get some fresh air and waves!

 

[indahook]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Ridiculous argument.

Sure it is Z...



"Children raised by single parents have been found to suffer from serious psychiatric illnesses and addictions later in life. Other results from these studies showed girls were three times more likely to become drug addicts if they lived with a sole parent, and boys were four times more likely. "

http://media.www.thehilltoponline.c...ent.Homes.And.Emotional.Problems-363327.shtml



"For both academic subjects — math and science — the largest performance gap between children from single-parent homes and those from two-parent families is found in the U.S.," Pong and Hampden-Thompson told attendees at the American Sociological Association meeting today (Aug 21) in Anaheim. "In other words, the U.S. ranks bottom among the 11 developed countries in terms of the equality of school performance between children from these two types of families."

http://www.psu.edu/ur/2001/singleparentmath.html

"THURSDAY, March 15 (HealthDay News) -- Adult men who grew up in single-parent households are twice as likely as other men to have been sexually abused during childhood, a U.S. study found.

That's because parental absences in single-parent homes provide more opportunities for sexual predators to abuse children, the researchers said"

http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=602691



"Studies also show problems in cognitive and academic ability, resulting in lower academic achievement, lower math scores, a greater failure rate, lower SAT scores, lower IQ scores, a higher dropout rate, and a lower college attendance rate. Children from single-parent homes also exhibit a higher degree of antisocial behavior, including higher rates of criminal behavior, greater delinquency for both girls and boys, and increased violent behavior in schools. They are also at greater risk of being physically and sexually abused."

http://www.speroforum.com/site/print.asp?idarticle=6317



Want some more? That was only the first two pages in a quick goog search...

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Complete nonsense.

You can show me more flawed studies that don't take into account the necessary variables to reach a truly scientific conclusion.

You have to compare all the variables and a comparison to come to any conclusion of merit.

There are plenty of husband and wife families, where both work, and the kids are not "safe" or less safe than a one parent household where the parent stays at home, plenty of latchkey kids from dual parent families.

More evidence of flawed studies.

It doesn't take a Sigmund Freud to see that the current dominant family structure in America, husband and wife, produces plenty of fucked up kids...and fails to the tune of near 50%. That is good for a kid? To see his parents split up, to think he/she was the cause of the split, that perhaps he/she was not a product of love?

Insanity...

Kids need to feel safe, loved, have good nutrition, education, etc.

That has nothing to directly with a one or two parent household, it has to do with the environment, and a single parent who is loving to their kid(s) can be much better than two bad self absorbed parents...

Quote from indahook:

Sure it is Z...



"Children raised by single parents have been found to suffer from serious psychiatric illnesses and addictions later in life. Other results from these studies showed girls were three times more likely to become drug addicts if they lived with a sole parent, and boys were four times more likely. "

http://media.www.thehilltoponline.c...ent.Homes.And.Emotional.Problems-363327.shtml



"For both academic subjects — math and science — the largest performance gap between children from single-parent homes and those from two-parent families is found in the U.S.," Pong and Hampden-Thompson told attendees at the American Sociological Association meeting today (Aug 21) in Anaheim. "In other words, the U.S. ranks bottom among the 11 developed countries in terms of the equality of school performance between children from these two types of families."

http://www.psu.edu/ur/2001/singleparentmath.html

"THURSDAY, March 15 (HealthDay News) -- Adult men who grew up in single-parent households are twice as likely as other men to have been sexually abused during childhood, a U.S. study found.

That's because parental absences in single-parent homes provide more opportunities for sexual predators to abuse children, the researchers said"

http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=602691



"Studies also show problems in cognitive and academic ability, resulting in lower academic achievement, lower math scores, a greater failure rate, lower SAT scores, lower IQ scores, a higher dropout rate, and a lower college attendance rate. Children from single-parent homes also exhibit a higher degree of antisocial behavior, including higher rates of criminal behavior, greater delinquency for both girls and boys, and increased violent behavior in schools. They are also at greater risk of being physically and sexually abused."

http://www.speroforum.com/site/print.asp?idarticle=6317



Want some more? That was only the first two pages in a quick goog search...

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:



Your vision of society is one of repression and control.

Wrong. Weighing the evidence against some fantastic view of the future is thinking ahead.

This woman presents the case much better than I could ever, and I recommend reading the column in its entirety. Overall I agree with her far more than I disagree.

.....

As intentionality has come to supplant biology, the law, by pretending nature doesn’t exist, has not caught up with reality; it has pole-vaulted over it. A family court in Burlington County, New Jersey, recently put two women on a state birth certificate. Last year, Virginia issued a birth certificate for a gay couple that read “Parent A” and “Parent B.” Massachusetts officials proposed crossing out “Father” on the state’s birth certificate and replacing it with “Second Parent” (until then-governor Mitt Romney nixed the plan). Many legal scholars are now proposing that courts move beyond the “heterosexist model” entirely. Why not put three parents—or four, for that matter—on the birth certificate? This past January, an Ontario court did just that. Intentionality, it seems, can accomplish almost anything.

....



Recognizing that it’s probably not a good idea for society to erect a wall between children and their fathers—and perhaps also not a good idea to encourage men to disown their kids—several Western countries have banned anonymous donation. Canada has made it illegal to pay someone for sperm. In Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden, and now Britain, donors must agree to be identified to their children once they reach 18. Unsurprisingly, the donor pool is drying up fast in some of these locales. Even countries with liberal laws on same-sex relationships, such as France, Iceland, and Norway, have banned AI (and, in some cases, adoption) for gays and singles. The contradiction is only superficial, a consequence of the way that we frame family making as primarily about adult rights and “intentionality.” What these European laws suggest is that you can support gay relationships, yet still think that it’s best for kids to grow up with a mother and father, preferably their own.

It would be a good idea for Americans likewise to abolish anonymous sperm donation. But let’s not kid ourselves that such a ban would also put an end either to fatherlessness or to male fecklessness, both nourished by our cultural predilection for individual choice unconstrained by tradition, the needs of children, or nature itself. To modify that preference, we’ll need something much more radical than government regulation.



....

 

[neophyte321]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Fully fallacy driven argument from the klannish destroyed below:

Man marries woman. Man impregnates wife. Wife has twins. Man dies in a car wreck.

Woman raises children with no husband and no father to children.

End of story.

Klannish have no reasoning ability...

One other point ... as for your charge of "no reasoning ability"

It you took the time to actually read the column I posted, the issue being addressed isn't that childen are "raised with no father", it's the legal recognition that a child "has no biological father".

quite a big difference.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Who would take the time to read all of your drivel...

Legally, show me a child who has been fathered without male sperm...

So, legally, the child does have a father.

The child may not have a legal male guardian

Quote from neophyte321:

One other point ... as for your charge of "no reasoning ability"

It you took the time to actually read the column I posted, the issue being addressed isn't that childen are "raised with no father", it's the legal recognition that a child "has no biological father".

quite a big difference.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I am not arguing from isolated experiences of being a parent. Sorry you parents fell out of love. Maybe it happened after they got a good look at you...

My personal situation is absolutely none of your business, so don't bother trying to "go there." As if I would be so stupid as others around there, the narcissists who just have to tell strangers of their personal lives. Get a dog...

I frankly don't get how losers on anonymous message boards continually posts details of their personal lives.

My arguments are based on direct objective observations.

Obviously from what I read, you don't know love at all, and have confused sexual attraction and mutual goals as love...

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

z, are you a parent ??? do you have a family? did you know that both parents work in the vast majority of american homes? it's simply what the modern economy demands...with all due respect Z, it seems like every study that has a conclusion which isn't to your liking is 'flawed'...

in ANY relationship that spans several years, decades, 20-30 years, there is going to be some point at which each partner dosen't 'love' the other, ask any old ass couple who's made it....
i have, and they all say something to the effect of 'sometimes it's a job', in 30 years there will be some point when each would honestly rather not be with the other, that's just reality, so, what keeps families together? what makes things work? since it certainly isn't this ephemeral feeling of love, what could it be? commitment perhaps? staying together and making things work even when you don't feel like it? maybe if this principal was reintroduced to american culture the state of the average american family would be alot better off...

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Making things work out of love works, making things work out of obligation, guilt, "what is best for the kids" etc. doesn't work.

Kids intuitively know the difference...

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

nice edit,

the fact is that what love is, is a subjective issue... one that philosophers and thinkers have been wrestling with for millenia...that being the case i don't think it has an appropriate place in legislation... but what i'm talking about here are healthy and functional families who stay together and make things work...