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POLL: Index futures traders, would you prefer a larger or smaller tick size?
- Thread starter Gabfly1
- Start date
Quote from Gabfly1:
I ask again, how often are you able to buy ES at the bid and sell it at the offer?
I don't scalp for tics. As such, I couldn't care in the slightest what the tic size is on any given instrument. You suggested your view might be myopic (with respect to which [smaller or larger] is "better"). I agreed.
I then suggested a manner, by which, you might have the ability to educate yourself. If you do not have an interest in learning something, I am perfectly fine with that.
Good Trading to you.
- Spydertrader
Why so judgmental, learned one? I'm not looking for an education. I'm just asking for opinions. If you're not scalping for ticks, then for what possible reason would you prefer paying a little more to get in, and getting a little less to exit? Depending on your trade frequency and size, it can add up. NQ's price action and character was NOT disturbed when ticks went from $10 to $5. I would rather pay $5 plus commission to enter a trade than $10 plus commission, all else being equal. And with NQ, all else was equal.Quote from Spydertrader:
I don't scalp for tics. As such, I couldn't care in the slightest what the tic size is on any given instrument. You suggested your view might be myopic (with respect to which [smaller or larger] is "better"). I agreed.
I then suggested a manner, by which, you might have the ability to educate yourself. If you do not have an interest in learning something, I am perfectly fine with that.
Good Trading to you.
- Spydertrader
Ease up on the posturing, hombre.
Quote from Gabfly1:
Why so judgmental, learned one? I'm not looking for an education.
As I have said, I have no problem with the fact that you have no desire to learn anything. Creating polls in an effort to reinforce your world view is what you do.
Keep up the excellent work.
- Spydertrader
Then why not simply answer the question I asked you? It would have taken less of your time than what you have already spent on this thread. Specifically, if you're not scalping for ticks, then for what possible reason would you prefer paying a little more to get in, and getting a little less to exit? Are you going to simply answer a simple question, or are you going to go the way of Jack?Quote from Spydertrader:
As I have said, I have no problem with the fact that you have no desire to learn anything. Creating polls in an effort to reinforce your world view is what you do.
Keep up the excellent work.
- Spydertrader
I explained the reason for my preference in no more than two sentences. Is it so much to ask that you do the same? Why all the attitude and elbows?
Quote from Gabfly1:
Why so judgmental, learned one? I'm not looking for an education. I'm just asking for opinions. If you're not scalping for ticks, then for what possible reason would you prefer paying a little more to get in, and getting a little less to exit? Depending on your trade frequency and size, it can add up. NQ's price action and character was NOT disturbed when ticks went from $10 to $5. I would rather pay $5 plus commission to enter a trade than $10 plus commission, all else being equal. And with NQ, all else was equal.
Ease up on the posturing, hombre.
I'm guessing you trade relatively small. Then why not trade SPY instead (or the Dow mini) if you want a tighter b/a? A .10 ES increment would be problematic for bigger orders who after showing their hand on the sweep would be raced to the next .10 by locals (electronic CME member groups).
Since you're implying that you 'give up the edge" then you're a liquidity taker not a liquidity provider. Based on your style then yes you have an axe to grind, You're looking for cheaper liquidity but size trades to size and for programs the .10 isn't going to provide any additional net liquidity. Just ask the Bond futures traders how well 64ths worked. It was a disaster and soon abandoned.
P.S. In times of immense volatility the pit never traded dimes either.
Perhaps compared to you and others here, I trade small. I prefer NQ because I like its character. Although I could trade any of the indexes with the method I am using, it works best with NQ. Better than ES and better than YM. TF has lovely volatility, but it gives me somewhat less reliable setups. As I wrote earlier, I switched from ES to NQ before NQ's tick size was cut in half. The cut was a bonus.Quote from HelloDollar:
I'm guessing you trade relatively small. Then why not trade SPY instead (or the Dow mini) if you want a tighter b/a? A .10 ES increment would be problematic for bigger orders who after showing their hand on the sweep would be raced to the next .10 by locals (electronic CME member groups).
Since you're implying that you 'give up the edge" then you're a liquidity taker not a liquidity provider. Based on your style then yes you have an axe to grind, You're looking for cheaper liquidity but size trades to size and for programs the .10 isn't going to provide any additional net liquidity. Just ask the Bond futures traders how well 64ths worked. It was a disaster and soon abandoned.
P.S. In times of immense volatility the pit never traded dimes either.
I don't know what you mean by "giving up the edge," but I usually enter on a marketable limit order, essentially a market order, when I absolutely want to be in. The smaller the tick size, all else being equal, the better it is for me. If you prefer larger tick size, please explain why. And if you trade ES, then let me ask what I have already asked a couple of times before: How often have you been able to buy at the bid and sell at the offer?
Buy the bid, sell the offer? All the time. (we're spreaders)That doesn't mean it sticks though. But if you look at t&s you see hundreds trading in and out on the bid and offer all day. My firm would prefer as wide a market as possible.
"Giving up the edge" is a pretty well known term. It means paying the offer or selling the bid.
"Giving up the edge" is a pretty well known term. It means paying the offer or selling the bid.
Quote from Gabfly1:
Perhaps compared to you, I trade small. I prefer NQ because I like its character. Although I could trade any of the indexes with the method I am using, it works best with NQ. Better than ES and better than YM. TF has lovely ranges, but it gives me somewhat less reliable setups. As I wrote earlier, I switched from ES to NQ before NQ's tick size was cut in half.
I don't know what you mean by but I usually enter on a marketable limit order, essentially a market order, when I absolutely want to be in. The smaller the tick size, all else being equal, the better for me. If you prefer larger tick size, please explain why? And if you trade ES, then let me ask what I have already asked a couple of times before: How often have you been able to buy at the bid and sell at the offer?
FredBloggs
Guest
Quote from Gabfly1:
ES has the largest tick size of all the minis. When was the last time you were able to buy the bid or sell the offer? Perhaps I'm somewhat myopic, but I see a larger tick size as increasing the cost of doing business. More often than not, you'll pay more to get in and get less to exit.
I voted smaller.
My own $0.02.
most of the scalpers i know (im not an authority btw) tend to lift liquidity, and replace it by getting in the queue on the other side - usually leaning on something. thats part of the art of scalping - reading the book to place your self in the best chance of getting fills.
i dont scalp for ticks, and im sure there are other ways....
Okay, thanks for responding. I look for movement beyond the bid/ask spread in my setups, so to me, a higher spread usually translates into a higher transaction cost. When I traded ES, buying on the bid was like a minor lottery win for me, assuming the price didn't immediately move lower.Quote from HelloDollar:
Buy the bid, sell the offer? All the time. (we're spreaders)That doesn't mean it sticks though. But if you look at t&s you see hundreds trading in and out on the bid and offer all day. My firm would prefer as wide a market as possible.
"Giving up the edge" is a pretty well known term. It means paying the offer or selling the bid.
As for the phrase, thanks for the clarification. I have never heard that term used in this context. I don't get out much.