POLL - Futures: How do you determine the trend?

[hans37]

Quote from makosgu:

CASE AND POINT! What authority do you have such that you are required an answer. The proximity of market turns is IRRELEVANT. But in your mindset, you deam this to be an IMPORTANT Q when for Dow et al it is the least important aspect.

The key to great trading is consistency. Being conservative, what if you could consistently pull 25% out of every trend that you can SPECIFICALLY identify. A pinpoint would be 100% of the trend. The difference between 100% and 25% every time is a growth factor. But if you could do either percentage consistently and everytime that a trend is identified, who cares??? CONSISTENCY and FREQUENCY are what are important. Not a PINPOINT!!! The former is what immensely gets rid of the fear when you're a noob.

MAK!

Hey if they are too afraid of answering my question then they should refrain from retorting with name calling(victor), or continuously dancing around attempting to explain away their foolishness with strawman arguments (charlie).


You sir however seem to forget that the ordinal claim was how accurate these calls were "pinpoint" and it IS RELEVANT to my trading . When have you got a fill verification from your broker oh you got in "around" so and so price?


All of my fills seem to have exact numbers, so knowing how close " pinpoint" means (1 tick , 5 ticks, 20 ticks)is essential to determining usefulness to my trading or maybe you just enter without protective stops.

 

[hans37]

Quote from Charlie Dow:

Let's put thing into perspective. Here is a transcript of the conversatin between you and Victor:

VictorS statement:

This is exactly what happened with me. So, in private messages I asked him his thoughts on the e-minis on three different occasions. He pinpointed where the market was headed and what the market would do when it reached those price levels.Three freaking times he nailed them with price reversals. I had to investigate. Never paid for any service yet he helps me with better understanding his system. He never solicited me. Why? Heck if I know.

Just investigate what he is saying. I promise you'll learn to read price better even if u dont trade the way he does. Reading the market instead of predicting the market will save you bundles.
By the way, its not easy to learn his trading method.

This is my last post ever on this subject defending him. Your loss not mine.

Hans37 response & question:

Good , So you are telling me he called the exact price of each reversal 3 times in a row for you?

If not the exact price , how far was he from the high or low?

Do you have dates and prices accurate enough for verification?(that would really be nice, but I understand if you don't, it just helps eliminate the selective memory tendencies traders have.)


Seriously I am trying to keep an open mind, and I am not slamming you, for all I know is you have made a legit generalized claim all i am asking for is more specifics.

VictorS answer:

first of all stupid a__ I was ignoring you. Secondly, do as Charlie has suggested... do your own homework. Hint...check my dialouge with Charlie under my posts on 8/24/05.
__________________________________________________

Victor gave you the date to where the conversation took place so that you could check it out for yourself and you decided to be lazy and make Victor out like he was hiding something. Again skewing a conversation to make yourself look good but again, the people reading this thread can see for themselves the focus of your tactics.

He is hiding, you selectively cut his message to exclude wher he reveals the information I am requesting is NOT there to be found.


maybe you don't know what "PRIVATE" means "So, in private messages I asked him his thoughts on the e-minis on three different occasions."

If he had to ask in a PRIVATE message does that not imply the answer was too VAGUE in the PUBLIC FORUM GEESH and you claim to be so educated and well versed in logic while showing NONE!.

The REAL qusetion is why is he so afraid to give a simple answer of how close were your pinpoint calls (1point 5pts 10 pts 100 points)?

DEFINE PINPOINT , victor have some balls.

 

[makosgu]

Quote from hans37:

..You sir however seem to forget that the ordinal claim was how accurate these calls were "pinpoint" and it IS RELEVANT to my trading . When have you got a fill verification from your broker oh you got in "around" so and so price?


All of my fills seem to have exact numbers, so knowing how close " pinpoint" means (1 tick , 5 ticks, 20 ticks)is essential to determining usefulness to my trading or maybe you just enter without protective stops...

SIGH...

You sir, have mixed up your terms. The word you were looking for was PRECISION. There is a difference. Was it PRECISELY at the top, PRECISELY at the bottom, the truth of the matter is that it is IRRELEVANT in a big picture. So, PINPOINT is PRECISION... Accuracy is about whether the statement was after the fact or not (ie. did he read and state direction as the trend unfolded... yes/no). VictorS verified that Dow accurately read and stated the unfolding direction (ie. before and as the market unfolded)!...

The second problem mentioned was with regards to how close this was to your trading. The context you point out suggests that you will understand what is done from your own trading perspective. Your series of posts suggest that this is how you investigate things. But what if what someone else does has ZERO overlap with what you do? Then you are trying to understand something which you cannot relate to... There are always 3 perspectives, either it has some overlap, no overlap, and complete overlap (ie. your trading is contained by an encompasing paradigm). I personally investigate everything with zero understanding, and build from the beginning, and then check for overlaps. It saves alot of headache and any need for mud slinging. Additionally, you eventually find out what Questions were relevant and which weren't.

I admit, I do get in without any protective stops. But that's just me...

MAK!

 

[Charlie Dow]

Quote from hans37:

He is hiding, you selectively cut his message to exclude wher he reveals the information I am requesting is NOT there to be found.


maybe you don't know what "PRIVATE" means "So, in private messages I asked him his thoughts on the e-minis on three different occasions."

If he had to ask in a PRIVATE message does that not imply the answer was too VAGUE in the PUBLIC FORUM GEESH and you claim to be so educated and well versed in logic while showing NONE!.

The REAL qusetion is why is he so afraid to give a simple answer of how close were your pinpoint calls (1point 5pts 10 pts 100 points)?

DEFINE PINPOINT , victor have some balls.

Wow, I searched VictorS's posts on 8/24 and he only had 2. It answered your question on one of the market turning points. VictorS's point is, "figure the rest out for yourself. If he has figured out what I do . . . all by himself, from information freely posted on this site . . . you should be able to that as well, right? You put yourself out there as being far superior to anyone else so that should be a simple task for someone as brilliant as you. I mean really, we are but mear mortals compared to your loafty self. If it is too hard . . . hire some high school freshman to find the information for you. I would offer the service of my 5 year old since he is comfortable with the search process but he is too busy being 5.

 

[hans37]

Quote from makosgu:

SIGH...

You sir, have mixed up your terms. The word you were looking for was PRECISION. There is a difference. Was it PRECISELY at the top, PRECISELY at the bottom, the truth of the matter is that it is IRRELEVANT in a big picture. So, PINPOINT is PRECISION... Accuracy is about whether the statement was after the fact or not (ie. did he read and state direction as the trend unfolded... yes/no). VictorS verified that Dow accurately read and stated the unfolding direction (ie. before and as the market unfolded)!...

Quote from VictorS:

This is exactly what happened with me. So, in private messages I asked him his thoughts on the e-minis on three different occasions. He pinpointed where the market was headed and what the market would do when it reached those price levels.Three freaking times he nailed them with price reversals.

You see mak if you would actually bother to read the posts I am responding to you would not be reduced to making yourself look like a fool admonishing me for incorrect term usage (or would you prefer I had used "nailed" since he did it "Three freaking times ").

So Please tell me oh great one what is wrong with simply asking victor to define "pinpoint"? or are you idiotically contending that the margin of error is irrelevant(never mind don't make me beat your ass over it and embarrass you as to why it is relevant to any sane trader)?

 

[Charlie Dow]

Quote from hans37:

You see mak if you would actually bother to read the posts I am responding to you would not be reduced to making yourself look like a fool admonishing me for incorrect term usage (or would you prefer I had used "nailed" since he did it "Three freaking times ").

So Please tell me oh great one what is wrong with simply asking victor to define "pinpoint"? or are you idiotically contending that the margin of error is irrelevant(never mind don't make me beat your ass over it and embarrass you as to why it is relevant to any sane trader)?

It's becoming obvious that you neither trade nor have access to real-time data, otherwise you would have followed the statement VictorS made and tracked it. Having access to the data and making the statements you have show an even more obvious course to your actions.

 

[hans37]

Quote from Charlie Dow:

Wow, I searched VictorS's posts on 8/24 and he only had 2. It answered your question on one of the market turning points. VictorS's point is, "figure the rest out for yourself. If he has figured out what I do . . . all by himself, from information freely posted on this site . . . you should be able to that as well, right? You put yourself out there as being far superior to anyone else so that should be a simple task for someone as brilliant as you. I mean really, we are but mear mortals compared to your loafty self. If it is too hard . . . hire some high school freshman to find the information for you. I would offer the service of my 5 year old since he is comfortable with the search process but he is too busy being 5.

Oh please, I could post multiple examples of where your condescension is enormous.
Maybe you too should actually read what is written vs what you wish to see. You are just upset that I happen to be sharp enough to catch your BS and call you on it. If that is in your mind equivalent to my saying "I'm superior to you" then fine perhaps I am. However thunderdog and equalizer have both decimated all of your drivel as well and both are better posters than myself.

Quote from VictorS:

first of all stupid ass I was ignoring you. Secondly, do as Charlie has suggested... do your own homework. Hint...check my dialouge with Charlie under my posts on 8/24/05. Like I said several times, i refer to him for clarification of reading his method. When I referred to him in that post that's in regards to HIS method. Furthermore, that isnt one of the threemarket turns you are waiting to read. Don't bother me again do your own research of the method in regards to market activity.

I've never claimed to be investigating "your method" .
The HILARIOUS part is you give me crap about asking victor for an example of the "ACCURACY" derived from you.
All the while victor thinks he has sufficiently answered my question by proposing a wild goose chase for a question I did not ask(what a moronic thing to do). Seems to me that if you truly wanted someone to investigate your method you would encourage them to discover it's potential utility first.

That is unless you are just a huckster selling crapola interested in another SALE or BELIEVER!

 

[Charlie Dow]

Quote from hans37:

Oh please, ....

boo bye . . . iggy button activated.

 

[makosgu]

Quote from hans37:

You see mak if you would actually bother to read the posts I am responding to you would not be reduced to making yourself look like a fool admonishing me for incorrect term usage (or would you prefer I had used "nailed" since he did it "Three freaking times ").

So Please tell me oh great one what is wrong with simply asking victor to define "pinpoint"? or are you idiotically contending that the margin of error is irrelevant(never mind don't make me beat your ass over it and embarrass you as to why it is relevant to any sane trader)?

Your entire history as a poster is a Quick read. Like most posters, you hear what you want to hear, and take what you want to take.

Phrases like "sane trader", "nailed", "embarass", "beat your ass", "idiotically" shows an interesting EQ. I mentioned previously why no one is required and answer to any Question. The path of greater resistance always seams to be in answering one's own question.

Just let it go... What is the important question??? The thread initiator "nailed" it on the head. I don't do pissing contests. I just promote progression. I know Equal and Sherlock do their own homework. On occasion, I agree with their statements, and at times I disagree. But I don't make any effort to "embarass", "beat their ass", "idiotically" as you are inclined to resort to. Why? IT GET'S NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED...

SO AGAIN, "HOW DO YOU DETERMINE TREND". It is post like yours that perpetuate and give reason for posters with a spectrum of answers, to not post their solutions.

In the quick read, your response was http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=899241#post899241 (but then there was this http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=901462#post901462). Personally, I know that nothing is BS until you can prove that it is. Even in a "Proof by Contradiction", you have to correctly use the assumption to prove that it is not self-consistent. In taking a stab at it, I could not find an inconsistency. Making an effort to disprove is a proving effort, effort most people never want to make. ET is what it is... Unfortunately...

MAK!

 

[hans37]

Quote from makosgu:


SO AGAIN, "HOW DO YOU DETERMINE TREND". It is post like yours that perpetuate and give reason for posters with a spectrum of answers, to not post their solutions.

ET is what it is... Unfortunately...

MAK!

oh please quit whining
LOL, here's some advice don't read or post if your FRAGILE ego can't handle a question or two.