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POLL for traders who trade the Jack Hershey method(s) in real time with real money
- Thread starter Thunderdog
- Start date
Spyder,
Please understand that I, myself, am not looking for a trading method. However, as I understand it, it takes months to learn how to trade Jack-style. I am guessing that other vendors, be they legitimate or not, do not require such a commitment in time just to learn something that is apparently being spoon fed to them, let alone to find out if it was or was not a complete waste of time. Fantastic claims raise eyebrows and questions. Think back to the Jack and the Beanstalk fairy tale. In real life, Jack would have done well to ask questions before believing in magic beans. And while that Jack traded his cow for the magic beans, people here are expected to commit months of their lives just to find out if the method works.
It is due to the combination of an absence of verifiable performance results, aside from a few anecdotal trades here and there, and the time required just to find out if one is wasting his time, that I started an admittedly imperfect poll. But it is the best I can do in the circumstances.
Please understand that I, myself, am not looking for a trading method. However, as I understand it, it takes months to learn how to trade Jack-style. I am guessing that other vendors, be they legitimate or not, do not require such a commitment in time just to learn something that is apparently being spoon fed to them, let alone to find out if it was or was not a complete waste of time. Fantastic claims raise eyebrows and questions. Think back to the Jack and the Beanstalk fairy tale. In real life, Jack would have done well to ask questions before believing in magic beans. And while that Jack traded his cow for the magic beans, people here are expected to commit months of their lives just to find out if the method works.
It is due to the combination of an absence of verifiable performance results, aside from a few anecdotal trades here and there, and the time required just to find out if one is wasting his time, that I started an admittedly imperfect poll. But it is the best I can do in the circumstances.
Quote from Thunderdog:
That's a rather misguided observation. I would think that the "lazy wannabe traders" you refer to are the ones who expect something to be handed to them. Like a trading system. If some here have succeeded with Jack's methods, then I salute them. However, I personally would be disinclined to commit a "few months" to "test and practice" anything that the purveyors refuse to verify. It has less to do with impatience than an appreciation for the value of my time.
Jack's fantastic performance claims have yet to be substantiated. Apparently, we must accept them on faith. Unfortunately, I am not shopping for a god to worship. From what I gather, and I may well be mistaken, there is a fair amount of interpretation in the method. That is one of the pitfalls of Elliot Wave theory as well. Interpretations that lost money in real time can always be reinterpreted differently after the fact to keep theoretical losses at a minimum.
That is why performance verification over a period of time would be most useful to anyone who values his time. That is why it is curious that Jack would not provide this detail as a courtesy to those people ready to commit several months of their lives, as well as their trading capital, to learning his methods. Of course, he does not have to do so, but then why make astonishing claims to begin with?
"why make astonishing claims to begin with?"
"astonishing?"
The members of ET set the standards as members. You took a break for a while and have arrived back continuing to set the standard.
You did not begin as a member to set the standards but over time you have become the standard setter.
Now you are conducting polls here on a subject that you know down cold and can thus set up a poll to help other members come to understand the stndards of what you post about.
Obviously, when I started to post it was on ET and I started right out posting the "astonishing" claim.
Time has passed and you have become the person who as a trader knows how to set the standards.
We are spending a year in a journal to get on the table the various aspects of SCT. It is a follow on of two years of posting on PVT and this year, regarding PVT we are moving to deal with the expert level.
The results so far are posted. The acheivments of people doing PVT and the beginning of SCT are posted.
You run the show I do not.
What I have done during my stays here between getting banned is respond to questions of others.
At first, the posts where 80% from detractors of my responses to questions.
My responses have contributed a viewpoint on the markets and trading. Most are considered TA stuff, pure and simple.
Now the journals are a consequence of people paying forward what they have learned to others who are asking Q's.
You run the polling and then you and others keep a theme alive here. Obviously it is very helpful to myself, the people passing it forward and the people doing the work to learn to go from novice to intermediate to expert in trading SCT and PVT.
We are thankful. We see the baseline levels for doing the process and succeeding or failing coming into a new ratio. In the past it was four out of five passing on the opportunityand only one out of five taking on the work.
Here in ET we are experiencing some people staying on the job for years on end to explain why they cannot do PVT and SCT. Now we have journals that are fairly complete repositories for anyone to go to and follow links to many many places to actually do the opposite and succeed quite nicely as recorded.
I do not know why at this point that the ratio went from 4 out of five not doing it to a new ratio. I do not even know what the new ratio is, for that matter, but it appears to be different and better.
There is a definite difference between the set of fear, anxiety and anger and support, comfort and confidence as expressed by the two sets of people who sustain an interest in the "talk" part of this discussion and the people who do the "work" part of the discussion.
Obviously for some people the "astounding claims I began with" have become a reality that they take to the bank.
It is also true that many people during this period got past the that line where they are irretrievably broken by following he conventional orthodoxy to its limit of repeated failure and the lizard syndrome that is characterized by deep anger, deep anxiety and deep and frozen fear while looking at the markets.
The work of the process of learning you have shunned as a contrarian trader. I do not advocate anyone having to pay dues in terms of loses when there is an alternative of building on success.
We are very strong on telling people (this is a thing that is we actively saying things that we mean and that have to be done as we say) to go back and do the work that they have skipped or screwed up. They either get it that they have to start over or they do not get it.
What a person is gifted by himself to himself if he does the work is what those who have preceded him are getting. They get practical knowledge, skills and experience. They also get to astonish themselves with their performance way beyond your standard.
There is absolutely no question that there are several levels of being astonished as the people get to see the displays we introduce for them to see at the level of competence and performance that they exhibit.
The tradition of anger in ET will be carried on forever. The torch will be handed from standard setter to standard setter.
We work on support, comfort and building confidence. We express that building on success is where it is at.
We make our market monitoring displays right in the groove for making money on the novice, intermediate and expert levels. They all will be on the table by the end of 2007.
There is no way anything we do can help anyone who is trapped in the conventional orthodoxy. We know
CO cold and we are front running this herd of people.
Inventors abound in this CO or CW. They are all like the kids from Lake Wobegon. So are the post doctoral quants who are anomoly experts. So are the Simple suckers. So are the scalpers. You are a contrarian by your choise. So are the BO traders. everyone is above average and most above average people perform accorcing to the large number rules.
We are a distinct minority and we want to filter people so they do not bring any attitudes to the table that prevent support, comfort and confidence from prevailing.
You are much more important than I am. You are the future and I am about nothing at this point.
I owe you the list you handed to me. I am responsible to you to let you get what you need to be able to become very rich very fast.
So you are going to get what you demand before you will go to work after 2007. So will everyone else such as yourself. You have to stop in your tracks and not go one step further into the trouble you have created for yourself up to this point.
The only people who will not get what they are asking for at this moment are those people who self defeated themselves as the most angry people have already done to themselves right here over the least few years.
What I have been learning lately is to not throw life preservers and to not spend my remaining time in anything less than the best pursuits for what is important.
This poll proves to anyone that work is what is required. The journals prove the way to do it. People pass it forward to those who make the decision to work. There are no claims made about anything. What has happened to me and others is just what it being reported out. In my case it has always been in response to questions that thinking people have asked.
I do not care what any one says about me and the others passing it forward nor do I care about any disparaging remarks personal or otherwise. None of this is accurate nor correct nor has any foundation. It comes from others fears, anxieties and their anger including you among others. You have made some big mistakes up to now.
Quote from WD40:
ProLogic offered a free seat in his seminar to a detractors. I don't think he made a convert.
proflogic is welcome to fly to the surfshack or our 5th ave offices anytime to show me what he does in real time in real markets. i have no interest in a guru seminar.
regards,surf
Surfer, what I would REALLY like to see is any proficient Jacker trading NQ using the hallowed method. It meets their sole criterion: liquidity.
I agree. However, since it supposedly requires months just to know how to start, I would want at least an indication that those months would not be a waste of time. In other words, I would like an indication of the validity of its source. There are countless vendors who are offering the key to the kingdom. Are we to humor them all with our time?Quote from nkhoi:
I value my time but I rather do verification on my own performance rather than rely on somebody else performance.
Quote from Thunderdog:
Spyder,
Please understand that I, myself, am not looking for a trading method. However, as I understand it, it takes months to learn how to trade Jack-style. I am guessing that other vendors, be they legitimate or not, do not require such a commitment in time just to learn something that is apparently being spoon fed to them, let alone to find out if it was or was not a complete waste of time. Fantastic claims raise eyebrows and questions. Think back to the Jack and the Beanstalk fairy tale. In real life, Jack would have done well to ask questions before believing in magic beans. And while that Jack traded his cow for the magic beans, people here are expected to commit months of their lives just to find out if the method works.
It is due to the combination of an absence of verifiable performance results, aside from a few anecdotal trades here and there, and the time required just to find out if one is wasting his time, that I started an admittedly imperfect poll. But it is the best I can do in the circumstances.
Your words fantastic and astonishing are about as humorous as it can get.
the standard that you have built in your mind over time is a very very important thing for you to start to think about.
Just because you cannot settle down and get rich does not mean anyone else can't.
There are very few people below you on the totem poll. Why you cannot do anything reasonable in polling is something to think about too.
You took a break for your reasons. think about it.
the stuff written above is trite.
Could we perhaps induce people who voted to comment on their experiences? Were they trading SCT or PVT? Did the successful SCT traders make 3X? Do they still trade SCT? What difficulties did the others experience? Did they retain part of the method in their subsequent trading? I am interested because I have no beef with PVT, hardly even looked at it, but I have a major boner for SCT. It would be sooooo nice if it really worked.
Not one P/l post for Jack. That says it all.
Quote from hypostomus:
Surfer, what I would REALLY like to see is any proficient Jacker trading NQ using the hallowed method. It meets their sole criterion: liquidity.
i plan on taking him up on the offer next time he is east coast. i dont believe he is pure jack system, however.
regards, surf