Some people prefer short time frames while others prefer longer time frames. Each trader has his or her own plausible reasons. Of course, shorter and longer is relative, and so one man's long term may well be another's short term. However, for the purposes of this poll, I am only interested if your own trading had improved when you either shortened or lengthened your own time frame from what you had used previously. So this poll applies to anyone whose performance has shown some improvement over time. Kindly participate in the poll, and feel free to comment.
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POLL: Did your trading improve from shortening your time frame or from lengthening it
- Thread starter Thunderdog
- Start date
This is one of the few times i will respond to you in a civilized manner even though you choose not to extend that same courtesy to most people on this site. The reason i am doing so is because i believe it is a legitimate question.
I think that the main problem 90% of traders face is wanting to lock in profit the second it is there, The way i got around this was simple, take stats on where you punch out and how often it goes far beyond that level, as opposed to how many times you punch out late, the numbers will be staggering. 90% of traders hold losers to long and take profit the second they get their blotter to turn green, so the answer to that would be lengthening my time frame. This is a hurdle which is easy to overcome once you start taking stats on how often you go one way as opposed to another and just learn to accept risk.
If you are just referring to swing trading as opposed to day trading i would imagine swing traders have a lower monthly PNL overall just based on the fact that it is harder to obtain substantial leverage for overnights, this statistic obviously eliminates the big wigs at firms like GS, MS, or JPM who make far more managing long term portfolios than any on this site would ever dream of.
DO NOT CORRECT MY GRAMMAR AS I DONT GIVE A FLYING F%$*
I think that the main problem 90% of traders face is wanting to lock in profit the second it is there, The way i got around this was simple, take stats on where you punch out and how often it goes far beyond that level, as opposed to how many times you punch out late, the numbers will be staggering. 90% of traders hold losers to long and take profit the second they get their blotter to turn green, so the answer to that would be lengthening my time frame. This is a hurdle which is easy to overcome once you start taking stats on how often you go one way as opposed to another and just learn to accept risk.
If you are just referring to swing trading as opposed to day trading i would imagine swing traders have a lower monthly PNL overall just based on the fact that it is harder to obtain substantial leverage for overnights, this statistic obviously eliminates the big wigs at firms like GS, MS, or JPM who make far more managing long term portfolios than any on this site would ever dream of.
DO NOT CORRECT MY GRAMMAR AS I DONT GIVE A FLYING F%$*
I am only discourteous to members whose posts I believe are arrogant and stupid. Not just stupid, because sometimes that can't be helped. Arrogant and stupid. And if you characterize my discourteous behavior as extending to "most people" here, well, then that must reflect how I personally view the majority of the posts to which I respond. However, I think you will find that I can be quite courteous to posters with whom I disagree provided that their posts are not -- you got it -- arrogant and stupid. As for the spelling thing, I regard it this way: if I find the content to be wanting, then the form damn well better be right. It's a quirk. That's why I never pick on spelling or grammar mistakes when I think a post is meaningful, whether I disagree with it or not. Thank you for bringing it up.Quote from dwl603:
...i will respond to you in a civilized manner even though you choose not to extend that same courtesy to most people on this site...
I don't think we are necessarily talking about the same thing. I was essentially referring to improved performance resulting from a change in time frame, all else being equal. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Therefore, if you have a method that you follow as intended in a given time frame, did you find that overall performance improved, for any number of reasons, from a change either up or down in time frame. I suppose discipline can be factored into the equation as a variable, but I did not consider it for the purposes of this poll. Nevertheless, thanks for bringing it up.Quote from dwl603:
I think that the main problem 90% of traders face is wanting to lock in profit the second it is there, The way i got around this was simple, take stats on where you punch out and how often it goes far beyond that level, as opposed to how many times you punch out late, the numbers will be staggering. 90% of traders hold losers to long and take profit the second they get their blotter to turn green, so the answer to that would be lengthening my time frame. This is a hurdle which is easy to overcome once you start taking stats on how often you go one way as opposed to another and just learn to accept risk.
I subscribe to the concept that once a trader has a successful strategy (functional on any fractal or timeframe) then the limiting factors become the markets capacity and money velocity. Shorter time frames offer higher money velocity but (at some point) can limit capacity. Whereas longer timeframes have no capacity limits but will invariably produce a slower money making velocity.
I voted short because that is true of my current trading but I think it depends what issues you are facing.
1. Some things simply work more reliably in longer timeframes.
2. Longer timeframes provide longer for psychological recovery after losing or winning trades. Also more time to "make" a decision. Thus they help with issues in this space.
3. Longer timeframes need bigger stops so that may cause a problem for some.
4. Shorter timeframes provide more opportunities.
So, in general, I'd recommend people started longer (daily, then maybe hourly or 4 hourly if its forex, then shorter) while they built their capability as part of the trading process. Once they understand their reactions at that level they could shorten timeframes and make the adjustments required.
For the record I trade 5 minute and below but am thinking about daily/hourly combined timeframes for some forex stuff.
1. Some things simply work more reliably in longer timeframes.
2. Longer timeframes provide longer for psychological recovery after losing or winning trades. Also more time to "make" a decision. Thus they help with issues in this space.
3. Longer timeframes need bigger stops so that may cause a problem for some.
4. Shorter timeframes provide more opportunities.
So, in general, I'd recommend people started longer (daily, then maybe hourly or 4 hourly if its forex, then shorter) while they built their capability as part of the trading process. Once they understand their reactions at that level they could shorten timeframes and make the adjustments required.
For the record I trade 5 minute and below but am thinking about daily/hourly combined timeframes for some forex stuff.
Quote from Thunderdog:
I am only discourteous to members whose posts I believe are arrogant and stupid. Not just stupid, because sometimes that can't be helped. Arrogant and stupid. And if you characterize my discourteous behavior as extending to "most people" here, well, then that must reflect how I personally view the majority of the posts to which I respond. However, I think you will find that I can be quite courteous to posters with whom I disagree provided that their posts are not -- you got it -- arrogant and stupid. As for the spelling thing, I regard it this way: if I find the content to be wanting, then the form damn well better be right. It's a quirk. That's why I never pick on spelling or grammar mistakes when I think a post is meaningful, whether I disagree with it or not. Thank you for bringing it up.
I don't think we are necessarily talking about the same thing. I was essentially referring to improved performance resulting from a change in time frame, all else being equal. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Therefore, if you have a method that you follow as intended in a given time frame, did you find that overall performance improved, for any number of reasons, from a change either up or down in time frame. I suppose discipline can be factored into the equation as a variable, but I did not consider it for the purposes of this poll. Nevertheless, thanks for bringing it up.
Appreciate the response. Dont know if this answers your question. If you take a working day tradfing strategy and try to change it to a swing trade strategy it will not work, you can not take a strat which requires an hourly time frame and make it work on a daily time frame, dont know if this answers your Q, but i know in general where time frames are concerned it would be beneficial to hold on to winners as long as possible, so in general holding out for a longer time frame will be more profitable, not only that if you have a working strat i have found that 90% of the time holding on to my basket of trades will pay me as long as i hold on for a while.
Quote from dwl603:
This is one of the few times i will respond to you in a civilized manner even though you choose not to extend that same courtesy to most people on this site...
Au contraire, I think he is remarkably restrained in his language and etiquette, given the abuse and vulgarity heaped on him regularly, and not surprisingly, in the P&R forum. Your own political leanings maybe influencing your thought processes in this regard since they seem to be aligned with âmost peopleâ in P&R.
Thank you all for your comments and insights. Please keep them coming.