POLL...Best API for for IB order entry...

[Simtrader]

Quote from paradox:

I suggest those interested in any of these products just try it out for themselves. They all have free demos. Learn to rely on yourself, and make your own decisions. Just like in trading, really.
And ignore the obvious hyperbole and falsehoods spread by the insecure along the way.

Precisely and well said. The web addresses for the main contenders are:

www.ninjatrader.com
www.bracket-trader.com
www.buttontrader.com
www.futures-trader.net

Let the jury decide.

 

[Simtrader]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Out of curiousity, who is Ray Deux? I've seen his handle posting on various forums having to do with the API, but is he associated with any of the IB API programs, etc.?

He is the developer of NinjaTrader. He also happens to be a trader which I for one appreciate, because he talks the language of traders and understands their needs. Let's just say that not all software developers are also traders. But do look at all products and check out all developers before reaching any conclusion for yourself.

 

[fabrizio]

Dear ELITE TRADER

Those API , expecially the ones that I thoroughfully Know, have reached status of bit more of a simple API.

It would be very nice from you to insert the most voted inside the "Newest Software Reviews" area.

This will give to everyone the chanche to post their opinion in detail on what is this new area of trading.

I would really appreciate the chance.

Thanks


Fabrizio

 

[Simtrader]

Quote from electron:



Pretzel, the developer of Bracket Trader 2003 is also a trader, so is the developer of FT. The problem with NT is that the Sell and Buy columns are in the opposite order than in the IB TWS. If you use both, and you may need to from time to time, this inconsistency is a problem that may cost you money. Also, both Bracket Trader and FT employ a very simple way of placing limit and stop orders using just one mouse button. In NT to do the same you have to use as many as three buttons (the wheel is used as a middle button). Now tell me how many people are used to using the right mouse button? I bet only Ray, the developer of NT.

NT is a nice product on the whole, but it is things like I just mentioned that convince me that Ray is better at developing software than trading. Trading requires more consistency than programming and most programmers can get away even if they completely suck at design, which is why it's better to be a programmer than a trader.

Placing orders with both FT and Bracket Trader 2003 is intuitively easier and leads to fewer mistakes than placing orders with NT. That's my experience and I have used all of these platforms. I decided to stick to Bracket Trader because it makes no sense to me to pay for something that is not neceessarily better than Bracket Trader. Once NT is designed in a way that makes sense to someone who really trades using the IB TWS, I will be the first one to switch to it, but I bet this is not going to happen any time soon since apparently Ray thinks that it is IB that should change their TWS design. Now, talk about a trader wishing the market went his way...

The numbers speak for themselves - more people are using Ninja than any other product. Opposite order for Sell/Buy columns? I've got no idea what you are talking about, sorry. By the way, one mouse click is all you need to place ANY order in Ninja when you use the SuperDom which is by far the best aspect of the whole program. Bracket-trader's little Dome is mickey mouse by comparison. Ray thinks IB should change their "TWS design"??? What are you talking about?!!! Ray, like Pretzel, like Hoi and many other developers are often fed up with the API design (with all it's bugs and problems that require extra programming workarounds). Who the hell cares what the TWS window looks like, once you use one of these front-end products anyway? I certainly don't care to have anything match that clutzy window. The only reason I have it displayed is to check my orders are working OK.

Check the numbers again. Most people use NT. It's my opinion that the freeloaders too cheap to pay for a quality product will go to Bracket-Trader with it's patchy support and quirky problems. The geeks will go to Button. The guys who've been using Futures-Trader will stay there because they know the product. The vast majority of new front-end users who aren't afraid to pay something, will go to Ninja. It's already happening.

But hey, that's just my $0.02 on what's going on.

 

[Scientist]

Quote from Simtrader:


I've seen this attitude before in so-called supporters of ButtonTrader (who are often the developer's assistants in disguise). The attitude of "you're probably too stupid to use it anyway". In fact, "why don't you quit trading altogether". This is what you are saying isn't it? The sheer arrogance never ceases to amaze me!

Are you kidding me? How long have I been on this board, how many posts have I made and how many mentioned ButtonTrader? Give us a break!

I don't know how much money you make trading futures 'Scientist' but I'd wager a small bet that it isn't much - if indeed you trade at all. The learning curve to get benefit out of ButtonTrader is so horrendous that it's just not worth the hassle for who knows what benefit - if any. You certainly sound like an egghead to me. ButtonTrader is NOT a simple product. Even it's developer Hoi acknowledges this, and certainly anyone who visits the web site can see it for themselves. You know that's its greatest weakness. I know it too. And so do 670 people who all prefer NinjaTrader.

Regarding my performance - You might be surprised. Regarding simplicity - No, BT is not simple in the sense of comprehensiveness - But yes, it is simple to understand if you just need the basics.

And by the way - Do we have a "so-called supporter" of NinjaTrader here? LOL!

I don't think about BT's comprehensiveness as a "weakness" at all. I see it as a strength - But yeah, there are always two sides to each argument. As the proverb goes: "On the opposite of a fundamental truth you can find an equally fundamental truth."

I didn't say ButtonTrader was crap, what I said was: it isn't worth the bloody effort!!! There's a difference. I want to concentrate on trading not on learning order entry software and reading 1000 pages of documentation. For god's sake ....we're talking about ORDER ENTRY here, not rocket science. I want a program that is clean, intuitive to use, has a great interface and great support. That's NinjaTrader. It sure as hell isn't ButtonTrader which appears to have nothing more than a little cult following of eggheads not real world traders. BTW, Ninja was way ahead of ButtonTrader at the same stage of it's lifecycle.

Effort? Can you do me a favor, please and define effort?

And are you saying that reading the "1000 pages" manual of BT is "effort"? I can do it in a day - Can't you?

BT is all of clean, intuitive to use (are you kidding me?), has a fantastic interface and great support.

Regarding ORDER ENTRY vs rocket science - I'm not talking about mere order entry. BT is about advanced trade management. The time invested into learning a few basic things will pay off hundred-fold in the future in terms of losses prevented, better order entries triggered (i.e. group strategies) and better exit management. I trade futures (and I trade them exclusively), so don't tell me it's unneccessary. BT is a hell of a tool for that.

As you've ably shown, technoids are usually pompous asses too. You people have a lot to learn about what lights the fire of real traders. If neutral readers of this thread honestly believe that ButtonTrader will help them make more money than NinjaTrader then please do join this technoid club and feel superior about yourself. The rest of us are busy trading for a living.

"What lights the fire of real traders" - LOL. Get a grip, boy. I'm not saying that BT will make you more money - I'm saying it can save you lots of time & trouble.

As for the analogy of Microsoft vs Linux? I couldn't give a toss ...I'm too busy making money in the DAX to give a monkey's arse about irrelevant nonsense like what operating system to use (Linus helps you make money does it, sonny?!). Oops I forgot, you wouldn't know what the "DAX" is, since it's a market where some people buy and sell things called 'Futures'. Look the term up some time!

Hmm... You have a very loose lip. You shouldn't get so angry, that's detrimental to trading performance. Regarding the "DAX" - You mean Deutscher Aktien Index? Your suggestions of what I know or don't or what futures are, are insulting, to say the least. I have lived in Germany for over 15 years, and I'll take a confident guess I know more about the DAX than you can even dream about. Today, I trade mainly the US Index Futures, ES & NQ, but also occassionally the Australian markets, the HKFE and the European futures.

I expect your apologies for those insults. You can be honest, but you can only go so far. Thanks for your consideration.

Compliments
Scientist.

 

[birgulino]

One way of landing a new wave of subscribers is to make sure that your platform can handle IB's AdvisorAccounts (when you trade more than one account with one click of a button). Currently no one of the mentioned programs is offering this capability but I understand the ButtonTrader is working on it. Makes good business sense.
Happy Trading!

Birgulino

 

[Simtrader]

I'm not here to pick a fight with you because I have better things to do with my time. As for expecting an apology ...keep on dreaming. You decided to personalise things at the moment you said I was probably in the wrong profession (trading) if I couldn't understand ButtonTrader. I hadn't attacked you personally had I before that? That comment does make you a pompous arse and you deserve whatever colourful responses followed.

I read several documents from ButtonTrader including a 27 page document on scalping the indices which is what I do. It was clear to me that to use the product to the full would require a huge time investment with an outcome that was very unlikely to enhance my profitability. It is not a lean and mean piece of software ...the phrase 'bloatware' comes to mind. I suspect it will never get past a small hardcore following because of these limitations.

Listen, if you like ButtonTrader....more power to you. Really, I am happy for you if it is helping you make more money. But the fact is that it hasn't taken off the way Hoi hoped for, while Ninja grows at the fastest pace of all the current products and remains head and shoulders, the most widely used product. I also note that now that more people are seeing this thread, the more people are voting for Ninja.

Good trading to you, Scientist. Sorry, but that name does conjure up an image of big horn rimmed glasses and doesn't help your case

 

[nononsense]

Quote from Simtrader:

I'm not here to pick a fight with you because I have better things to do with my time. As for expecting an apology ...keep on dreaming. You decided to personalise things at the moment you said I was probably in the wrong profession (trading) if I couldn't understand ButtonTrader. I hadn't attacked you personally had I before that? That comment does make you a pompous arse and you deserve whatever colourful responses followed.

[...]

Good trading to you, Scientist. Sorry, but that name does conjure up an image of big horn rimmed glasses and doesn't help your case

nononsense

 

[DaveN]

This has been a fruitful and useful discussion; however, while good points are being made, it is also starting to get a bit heated. Please keep the discussion centered on the products, user experiences, and facts as you know them.

Refrain from personal attacks, or I will start editing and deleting. I realize this can be difficult when posters feel strongly about a subject or product, but please take the time to do so. Thanks.

 

[Hittfeld]

My choice: Autotrader! Easy, slim, best replay features ,including ensign files, TWS simulation during replay, and donation-ware. Win/linux .

Hittfeld