POLL...Best API for for IB order entry...
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I've seen this attitude before in so-called supporters of ButtonTrader (who are often the developer's assistants in disguise). The attitude of "you're probably too stupid to use it anyway". In fact, "why don't you quit trading altogether". This is what you are saying isn't it? The sheer arrogance never ceases to amaze me!Quote from Scientist:
Well, so what do your statistics tell us? Mainly that ButtonTrader isn't represented enough yet, which is why not more people are using it.
It's like saying "Microsoft Windows is good, because it's on 90% of all computers. Linux is crap, because it's on only 6% of computers, and no one uses it"
Unfortunately, this is inaccurate. The opposite is the case. And as a matter of fact, more than 60% of web servers today run on Linux, i.e. Apache servers. Because it's a lot more secure and reliable, and that's what's required for servers.
But people don't look at things objectively. They buy what's most common and hyped the most.
I'll just say - Wait a little while - It won't be long until ButtonTrader's fan-community grows larger than all the others' - There are some major features coming up in Button Trader...
Regarding your difficulties with ButtonTrader - I don't understand anything of what you're saying. The first time I loaded it, I figured out how to buy & sell - Intuitively.
It's very intuitive, very practical, very simple and particularly very safe. It's got every money management feature you could wish for. There's no 10,000 pages of reading required. But if you want to make use of all the amazing features, you're free to do so.
I don't know about "eggheads and technoids" - You know, I would make a careful guess that if you don't understand a program of the simplicity of ButtonTrader, you may not be in the right profession with trading, either. Trading doesn't require extreme smarts, but it requires a basic ability to understand simple things and relations.
Think about it. If you really think ButtonTrader is complicated... Well, good luck to you, anyway...
Scientist.
I don't know how much money you make trading futures 'Scientist' but I'd wager a small bet that it isn't much - if indeed you trade at all. The learning curve to get benefit out of ButtonTrader is so horrendous that it's just not worth the hassle for who knows what benefit - if any. You certainly sound like an egghead to me. ButtonTrader is NOT a simple product. Even it's developer Hoi acknowledges this, and certainly anyone who visits the web site can see it for themselves. You know that's its greatest weakness. I know it too. And so do 670 people who all prefer NinjaTrader.
I didn't say ButtonTrader was crap, what I said was: it isn't worth the bloody effort!!! There's a difference. I want to concentrate on trading not on learning order entry software and reading 1000 pages of documentation. For god's sake ....we're talking about ORDER ENTRY here, not rocket science. I want a program that is clean, intuitive to use, has a great interface and great support. That's NinjaTrader. It sure as hell isn't ButtonTrader which appears to have nothing more than a little cult following of eggheads not real world traders. BTW, Ninja was way ahead of ButtonTrader at the same stage of it's lifecycle.
As you've ably shown, technoids are usually pompous asses too. You people have a lot to learn about what lights the fire of real traders. If neutral readers of this thread honestly believe that ButtonTrader will help them make more money than NinjaTrader then please do join this technoid club and feel superior about yourself. The rest of us are busy trading for a living.
As for the analogy of Microsoft vs Linux? I couldn't give a toss ...I'm too busy making money in the DAX to give a monkey's arse about irrelevant nonsense like what operating system to use (Linus helps you make money does it, sonny?!). Oops I forgot, you wouldn't know what the "DAX" is, since it's a market where some people buy and sell things called 'Futures'. Look the term up some time!
you guys are NERDY about this stuff..
I use non of this products, because i don,t have account
with IB yet (very soon).
Is ninja trader and bracker trader are similar order entry
platform and has so many similar features?
But what is the main benifit of using buttontrader?
with IB yet (very soon).
Is ninja trader and bracker trader are similar order entry
platform and has so many similar features?
But what is the main benifit of using buttontrader?
Ninja has more features and less bugs than Bracketrader. It also has a cleaner more intuitive interface, but perhaps most importantly of all, it has the best developer support and training of all products. Ray Deux will usually answer your email question within one hour, and he provides full training via voice (PalTalk or Yahoo) every Tuesday after market close. This is your money on the line. You shouldn't mess around with a freebie product - get a product with the best support and training. One that has all the most important features that you need. One that has the largest and fastest growing base of subscribers.
The main benefit using Buttontrader?
You get to go through the initiatiion process whereby you must prove that you've mastered 500 pages of documentation before you are permitted to press the Buy button. You want to just buy at the market and put in a target price & stop-loss? Sorry, you must be an idiot trader then! Don't you realise that you first need to install Linux, learn C++ programming language in order to run 12 different automated techniques on 13 symbols symbols across 10 different tick volume charts, requiring you to puchase 3 extra monitors, in order to become a profitable trader?! In short, the main benefit of Buttontrader is that after initiation, you get to pull your pants down and be smacked with a giant paddle by the developer himself, if you are deemed intelligent enough to use his product
Interactive Brokers are in the brokerage business not the datafeed business. Their live quotes (Last, Bid & Ask price & size) are not true streaming prices. They are snapshot values taken every 0.7 second I believe. Compared to real-time streaming datafeed or even the patystems J-Trader platform, IB will be transmitting about 30-40% fewer ticks.
So all those 'tick volume analysis' charts in Buttontrader are fundamentally flawed right from the start, not because of a design flaw in the program but because they are being fed by second rate data that is dropping 30-40% of the information you need. Buttontrader even has documentation (only 343 pages this time!) which shows the benefit of "seeing" one market's volume pressure versus another. What nonsense. You've got IBs data behind all symbols ...so forget about it!
This is typical of Buttontrader. All these supposedly great features that are effectively useless when it comes to helping you make more money. It's just proof that the product is designed as a piece of technoid, to appeal to eggheads. By contrast, Ninja dedicates itself to designing features around the entering and manipulation of orders, in a clean user interface. In all honesty, even NinjaTrader has more features than you probably need. If you're a real trader, stick to a product that is usable, easy to get up and running, and where you can be surrounded by normal traders and not the guys with the funny shaped classes you always hated in high school!
So all those 'tick volume analysis' charts in Buttontrader are fundamentally flawed right from the start, not because of a design flaw in the program but because they are being fed by second rate data that is dropping 30-40% of the information you need. Buttontrader even has documentation (only 343 pages this time!) which shows the benefit of "seeing" one market's volume pressure versus another. What nonsense. You've got IBs data behind all symbols ...so forget about it!
This is typical of Buttontrader. All these supposedly great features that are effectively useless when it comes to helping you make more money. It's just proof that the product is designed as a piece of technoid, to appeal to eggheads. By contrast, Ninja dedicates itself to designing features around the entering and manipulation of orders, in a clean user interface. In all honesty, even NinjaTrader has more features than you probably need. If you're a real trader, stick to a product that is usable, easy to get up and running, and where you can be surrounded by normal traders and not the guys with the funny shaped classes you always hated in high school!
My association is that I am paying customer. I am one of the early migrators to Ninjatrader after first using Bracketrader several months ago, but like so many people got fed up after Pretzel went AWOL for six months.
In terms of my association with Ray Deux, I am probably his biggest pain-in-the-ass customer. I'm sure that any other developer would have banned me from using their product by now! Only as recently as yesterday I put out an email on his users group which went to all 670 members and detailed in excrutiating detail all the things I think need improvement . I was using a lot of language like "the works this works is a bugger", the way that works "is a twat". It went to everyone who users his product. Sign up for the Yahoo group and check it out if you don't believe me.
I guarantee that the likes of Hoi (Button's developer) would NEVER permit such acts of internal disobedience! But the fact that Ray Deux puts up a loudmouth like me, tells me that he is a straight up kind of guy without an ego. I say whatever I like to him precisely because I am not his lacky.
By contrast, guys like you, Scientist and Louis act like a bunch of shills running around various user forums to promote a product under dubious pretences. Anybody who knows me, or is familiar with the banned(!) username "Johnny Rotten" on this forum knows that I am the genuine article. Everything that I say represents my personal opinion of these products, having used or looked at them all. It isn't my fault if my blunt honesty irritates you Button geekoids.
God only knows what YOUR association with Hoi is though. By the way, where is Louis? I haven't seen him since he was railroaded off the ibusers email list by acting like a shill for Buttontrader under false pretences. It was hilarious. Not just myself, but even the administrator of the yahoo IB API developers forum told him to sod off!!
Out of curiousity, who is Ray Deux? I've seen his handle posting on various forums having to do with the API, but is he associated with any of the IB API programs, etc.?
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