Poll: Automated or Discretionary, which has been more profitable for you?

[Jackie Treehorn]

Quote from The Big D:

It's not like that sort of background is difficult to acquire. They do publish books on computer programming and math

Im fairly competent in both, but i wouldn't kid myself into thinking i could compete with 100 code breakers/voice recognition guys at renaissance....

 

[The Big D]

Quote from tycoonman:

Exactly!

and my buddy's script was for oil as well.

I can see certain types of very fast algorithmic stuff being hard from a programming perspective though - if you've got multiple exchange/dark pool data feeds, a price/volatility probability model, your core algorithm, trade submission & execution messages etc. all flying around at once, everything on a ms timeframe, and all the datafeeds have errors - well, that's going to take some real-time programming skills that don't grow on trees.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Quote from The Big D:

I can see certain types of very fast algorithmic stuff being hard from a programming perspective though - if you've got multiple exchange/dark pool data feeds, a price/volatility probability model, your core algorithm, trade submission & execution messages etc. all flying around at once, everything on a ms timeframe, and all the datafeeds have errors - well, that's going to take some real-time programming skills that don't grow on trees.

Thats what we are talking about, perpetual motion machines with size, running for years..

 

[lindq]

Quote from Jackie Treehorn:


Do you really think you are smarter than the smartest people and fastest computers in the world...

I don't need to be the smartest or fastest person in the world.

I just need to be smarter or faster than you.

I only need one person on the other side of my trades. The rest of the world I could care less.

 

[tycoonman]

Quote from Jackie Treehorn:

Im fairly competent in both, but i wouldn't kid myself into thinking i could compete with 100 code breakers/voice recognition guys at renaissance....

???

im a applied math/CS major myself...is there something these HFT guys are capable of programming that your regular developer can't? I don't get it.

C# or C++ should be more than enough (depending on broker's API) to create competative system, no? real question...

I was planning on going to chicago with one of the financial engineering guys here and setting up a system there... i won't if there is some insider info that im not aware of lol...

 

[ElecEquity]

Quote from Jackie Treehorn:

I have to question people who believe they will be rich with a completely automated system who do not have an extensive mathematics or programming background..


Do you really think you are smarter than the smartest people and fastest computers in the world...



The one positive since computers are mostly trading these days, You basically eliminated the riskiest parts of markets... people......

I have absolutely ZERO background in mathematics or programming and I have 2 live profitable automated systems with one performing well in testing which may be live soon. All automated trading doesn't have to consist of HFT -- mine doesn't. Now for HFT, you're probably right about needing an extensive mathematics background.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Quote from lindq:

I don't need to be the smartest or fastest person in the world.

I just need to be smarter or faster than you.

I only need one person on the other side of my trades. The rest of the world I could care less.

I dont trade with computers,i dont have a co located server, if you think your faster than renaissance (or whoever) to grab my lots for a couple of ticks knock your self out...

If your using Algos to pick an entry point, knock yourself out.. So is everyone else... Allgos have essentially made markets much more predictable....

 

[tycoonman]

Quote from ElecEquity:

I have absolutely ZERO background in mathematics or programming and I have 2 live profitable automated systems with one performing well in testing which may be live soon. All automated trading doesn't have to consist of HFT -- mine doesn't. Now for HFT, you're probably right about needing an extensive mathematics background. [/QUOTE

what exactly would you have to know extensively for math thats not already learned in CS?

I mean, to be a programmer you need to know linear algebra and thats about it. Other than linear algebra, what else would you need to know and for what? Analysis/Advanced Calc etc.,??? I don't see how the latter would be used in finance...

 

[Rabbitone]

I’m a retired Computer professional who trades. I taught computer science and wrote my first commercial system in 1973.

How hard can it be to automate to trade? It is hard. Try programming the trend. Sure linear algebra is involved. But try to get this trend you program to tell you the most profitable entries and exits for any type of price data, in any time interval, for different types of securities, with changes in volatility, with erratic price activity and noise (like huge gaps up or down on earnings day) and for price gyrations (first price bar intraday) to name a few. Oh yeah then there are black swans and who knows what else.

Quote from tycoonman:

Quote from ElecEquity:

I have absolutely ZERO background in mathematics or programming and I have 2 live profitable automated systems with one performing well in testing which may be live soon. All automated trading doesn't have to consist of HFT -- mine doesn't. Now for HFT, you're probably right about needing an extensive mathematics background. [/QUOTE

what exactly would you have to know extensively for math thats not already learned in CS?

I mean, to be a programmer you need to know linear algebra and thats about it. Other than linear algebra, what else would you need to know and for what? Analysis/Advanced Calc etc.,??? I don't see how the latter would be used in finance...

 

[tycoonman]

lets just say when they start incorporating AI techniques (which they may have already) retail traders are effed. luckily for us, the real engineers/scientists worth a damn don't care about finance...its all the phds and masters that either really needed the money, or were too stupid to get into something scientifically inclined.

you think a robotics phd working on quantum computing is sitting there trying to program an algo? LOL. no, its the guy that got a masters in CS from for local state uni then didn't get job offers worth the bang for the buck, and so he went into finance -- can't really blame him though.