Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional

BTW EINSTEIN, you just put your foot in your mouth.

The following quote by me is directly posed to YOU
in my previous post:

Stop being so hypocritical. You would be screaming bloody
murder if our money said "Under NO god we Trust",
or "Under SATAN we trust".

wouldn't ya? Don't dodge this question, because I will continue
asking it until it is OBVIOUS you dodging it.



IN FACT.... I posed this question to YOU ***BEFORE*** AAA :D


I think you are really getting too worked up and i don't want to get in another TM type melt down so Im going to leave this and a few others for awhile because you seem intent on 'getting' me....i like and respect you TM so im going to just fade into the sun and trade awhile :D



peace

axeman


Quote from TM_Direct:




BTW EINSTEIN.....You asked AAA the Question not be....but then you accused me of 'dodging' as expected:D :D

i think you are really getting too worked up and i don't want to get in another GG type melt down so Im going to leave this and a few others for awhile because you seem intent on 'getting' me....i like and respect you axe so im going to just fade into the sun and trade awhile

peace
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

BTW EINSTEIN, you just put your foot in your mouth.

The following quote by me is directly posed to YOU
in my previous post:

Stop being so hypocritical. You would be screaming bloody
murder if our money said "Under NO god we Trust",
or "Under SATAN we trust".

wouldn't ya? Don't dodge this question, because I will continue
asking it until it is OBVIOUS you dodging it.



IN FACT.... I posed this question to YOU ***BEFORE*** AAA :D


I think you are really getting too worked up and i don't want to get in another TM type melt down so Im going to leave this and a few others for awhile because you seem intent on 'getting' me....i like and respect you TM so im going to just fade into the sun and trade awhile :D



peace

axeman
More...


I had already said i didn;t care....i question motives on these issues more then i do the law.....thats why i also said that I don't think it should be on future printings...I agree it shouldn't be on there...read my posts past and present.
 
When you pull money out of the market; do you really care what it says??? it is just a number...

I have to agree with TM_Direct...you guys are like cult like....I have yet to see a religious person start a thread condeming any of u non-believers.....its always lil GG mad at the world coming out stating that believers are "idiots" and whatver else his sorry ass says....
 
"When you pull money out of the market; do you really care what it says??? it is just a number..."

This trivializes the matter.

I believe the USA is the greatest nation in the free world
because it philosophically allows everyone to have their
own beliefs, protects those beliefs, and does not play FAVORITES.

I think it's absolutely hypocritical for one group, to have THEIR
slogan on all our money. It wasnt there to begin with.
The pledge is the same story. It was NEUTRAL to start with
and then ONE group hijacked it and implied that everyone
elses non-god beliefs are somehow inferior. This is not right.

Government should be neutral to ALL belief systems.
There is no FAIRER way. It's a very simple idea.

Im frankly shocked that people will scrounge around for whatever
EXCUSE they can find to keep ONE groups beliefs held OVER
everyone elses. This is philosophically NOT what our country is about.


"I have to agree with TM_Direct...you guys are like cult like....I have yet to see a religious person start a thread condeming any of u non-believers.....its always lil GG mad at the world coming out stating that believers are "idiots" and whatver else his sorry ass says...."

Well... your right about GG starting a lot of these, but it is not
fair to apply this label to ME, or stu or atheists in general.

I have NEVER started a religious thread on ET.
I get involved AFTER a thread has started and some theists
make some really bad arguments. Then I typically jump in
to defend atheistic belief. Ive been a defensive player
just like all the theists who reply to GG.


If money said "In NO god we trust" on it, I would be fighting
to get it removed as well. This would be a slap in the face
to theists. Government has no right to impose any groups
beliefs over anothers.

peace

axeman
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:



Part of living in a pluralistic society is having to hear, see or deal with things you find distasteful. If people want to start a graduation assembly off with a prayer, how exactly has a nonbeliever been injured? And isn't it ironic that the same people who lecture us endlessly about the virtues of diversity are the first ones to clamp a muzzle on any expression they find distasteful?
More...

Yep, you have to deal with this lawsuit. Its a national issue.

This has nothing to do with belief or non-belief. Its the state requiring children to recite the pledge with the reference that is the issue.

Would you like to be forced to say a prayer to Allah to satisfy your graduation requirement? Would you feel injured if you had to? I am assuming your are not a believer in Islam, but I could be wrong.

Can't you you analyze anything without pursuing your political agenda?
 
Quote from axeman:

Government has no right to impose any groups
beliefs over anothers.

peace

axeman
More...

Im going to have to agree with you on this.... Although tis not how the real World Works....peace
 
Quote from axeman:
Im frankly shocked that people will scrounge around for whatever EXCUSE they can find to keep ONE groups beliefs held OVER everyone elses.
More...
An interesting point - who do you perceive as the "one" group and who is "everyone else"?

This seems a valid question since according to a series of annual Harris Polls, 94% of American adults believe in a God in some form.

Is the 94% of the population that "one" group you're talking about?

Are the other 6% (presumably agnostics and atheists) - the "everyone else" you're referring to?
 
The one group is "theistic based belief systems".

The other group is "non-theistic based belief systems"

This would include atheists, agnostics, buddists, and any
other belief system which does not necessarily believe in god or gods.


Not sure where you get your numbers from.

Recently, and encouraging to us non-religionists, is a very large research project known as the ARIS (American Religious Identification Study) done by the Graduate Center of Religious Study at CUNY (City University New York). This study has a significant sample size that dwarfs those of Gallup and others (+50,000).
Study available at: http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/studies_index.htm,


A few of the interesting summary points:

1) Those with NO RELIGION are the fastest growing percentage of the adult population.

2) Washington State that has the highest percentage of No Religion at 28% of the population.

3) Christians are down sharply to 77% of the US

4) And my OWN stat: 97% of the National Academy of Scientists,
our top guns in science, are non-believers.


In any case.... the numbers don't matter because majority
does not rule. The rights of the minorities are carefully
guarded under our rule of law, and under the american
philosophy.

If 100 years from now, atheists made up 99% of the population,
"In NO god we trust", or ANYTHING similar, should never
be put on government money, or in our pledge.



peace

axeman



Quote from ArchAngel:


An interesting point - who do you perceive as the "one" group and who is "everyone else"?

This seems a valid question since according to a series of annual Harris Polls, 94% of American adults believe in a God in some form.

Is the 94% of the population that "one" group you're talking about?

Are the other 6% (presumably agnostics and atheists) - the "everyone else" you're referring to?
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

More hypocrisy.

AAA, would you keep your mouth shut if our pledge
and money said "Under Satan we trust" ??

Answer the question.


peace

axeman
More...

Interesting question. Would I recite such a pledge? No, of course not. For Believers, this is not idle speculation either, see the New Testament Book of Revelation.

Would such a pledge or monetary inscription be constitutional? I think not. The Establishment Clause prohibits government interference with the "free exercise" of religion. Requiring an acknowledgement of satan's sovereignty over our country would be inconsistent with the free exercise clause, particularly in view of our tradition of being a Christian country.

In my view, the free exercise clause does not grant quite the same scope of protection to atheists. It doesn't say "Congress shall make no law...prohibiting the free exercise of religion or atheism..." While they cannot be forced to join or support a religion or have their rights conditioned on church membership, they have no right to insist that public life be scrubbed of all religious references. To do so would violate others' rights to free exercise.

I grant you that many constitutional lawyers and courts would disagree with my view. In essence, they would say atheism is equivalent to a religion and government cannot favor one over the other.
 
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