Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional

if you do study up on the founders' writings, you and your country will be richer for it.

It is indeed scary that anyone who dares to contradict the current fad of misinformation is likened to a 'nutcase from yesteryear.' Brave new world, indeed.

ps the pen is mightier than the sword. didn't mean you any harm.
 
Originally posted by dgabriel
I am sorry I ever answered Chasinfla, whose statements and fears are curiously<b> similar to certain nutcases from yesteryear.</b> This is my final post on this thread and I won't read any followups.
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THE SECOND KEY TACTIC WAS TO PLAY THE CATHOLIC CARD

<b>We systematically vilified the Catholic Church and its "socially backward ideas" </b>and picked on the Catholic hierarchy as the villain in opposing abortion. This theme was played endlessly.
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(full article attached. link <a href="http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html">here</a>.)

<font size=1>The article is a discussion by a former leader in the abortion industry -- THE leader. I include it here not because that 's what this thread is about, but because the foregoing quote puts gabriel's remarks in perfect context, and I want to cite the source.</font>
 

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Public schools in my opinion are there to teach children how to function in society. One of those functions is to be tolerant of others and their beliefs. It seems to me that a moment of silence is fair to all. If kids want to say the pledge with god that is fine. If the want to worship Allah, they need to go to Afghanistan, just kidding. But the war is what fanatical beliefs on any level cause. If they want to skip it completely that should be allowed too. But a court case?

Here are 2 emails from a 14 year-old I work with as a mentor. There are a lot of things he should be getting AT HOME. But the public school system is the only chance he has to become a productive member of society. Enjoy!

> hi mac how are you doing today.well i am fine and i
> hope you are to didn't you know the libaray was close
> on monday i didn't i was out of town so i could not
> contact you to tell you i has been a while sence we
> work together so i will see you on monday

hi mac my summer has been very bussie sence i been out for school and i dont have time to make it on some mondays and i will call you to let you know my mom want to give you sonething for helping me it's like a little reward so she would like to know your home address so i will see you when-ever

Aside from grammar, he still does not know his multiplication tables either. I doubt any prospective employer is going to care if he says the pledge with god or without, but I am sure that many of his job applications will be worshiping the inside of a trash can.

sad, very sad.
 
Chas, if you don't know about the "doctrine" of separation of church and state that underpins much of what America stands for, you ought to be stripped of your citizenship ASAP. (Just how "under god" managed to beat the Establishment clause is hard to believe)

Although I am obviously totally in favor of dropping any mention of any god from any government/school policies, I would warn people of one potential problem.
I can just imagine, come election time, the religious right using this as a call to arms to their legions of followers who would like to see america become the christian version of Iran. Just look at the reaction (despicable!) from congressmen to the decision. A reminder that, as always, religion is used as a political tool to motivate the mindless.

However, in the opinion of this unabashsed atheist, the sooner america - the leader of the free world - rids itself of any affiliation to a fictitious figure of hebrew mythology, the better.
 
Oh man, would someone please give that kid a voucher for private schooling so that he can learn about God..... er, I mean grammer and multiplication tables.
 
Quote from chasinfla:




Interestingly, the great decline in America's fortunes began to be manifest with a similar decision: that the bible and 10 commandments weren't allowed in the public realm (1962, I believe).
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Personally I think it started with the Dewey system of education: "Religion is a disease, sight reading is best etc. ", that is what the public education was about for a long time. I could read hardly at all when I left the first grade. I had a very devout Christian young lady as a teacher in the second grade and she simply taught us all to read phoenetically. Thirty years later I was reading about people graduating that could not read their diploma!!

Industrial societies decline into "service economies" eventually, the USA has been on that road for a long time. Try to have a manufacturing business in California if you don't believe me!!

:D
 
Quote from aphexcoil:



If the Supreme Court says that the Pledge of Alligence is unconstitutional, I'm just going to give up on this country and hope the next great empire gets their shit in gear.
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APHEX, YOU ARE THE PRESENT DAY EQUIVALENT OF SOMEONE CLAIMING THE EARTH IS FLAT--EVEN THOUGH IT'S ROUND, BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T ACCEPT IT YET. OF COURSE YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS. BUT DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S EXACTLY HOW PEOPLE ACTED WHEN IT WAS THOUGHT THE EARTH WAS ROUND AND NOT FLAT. YOU NEED TO GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!! it is CLEAR you are a conflicted individual TORN between science and religion. FREE YOURSELF FROM THE CRAP THAT IS HOLDING YOU BACK!!! you have extra pieces to a puzzle that don't fit anywhere--THROW THEM AWAY!!

funny; i think the total opposite. if they don't get this religious crap out of government and public schools, i want to move to another country. this is CRUCIAL.

it is a NO BRAINER to take it out of the pledge, off our money, etc.

NO ONE is stopping ANY person to worship ANY "god" they want. SO DON'T GIVE US SOME CRAP ABOUT WE'RE RUINING THINGS FOR YOU. DO ALL THE PRAYING YOU WANT--BUT IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS NOR A PUBLIC SCHOOL'S.

also keep in mind, THE PLEDGE DID NOT ORIGINALLY HAVE "UNDER GOD" IN IT!!!

think of little kids in school. they don't know enough to make their own choices. they just say "under god" every day because it is suggested to them. even i used to do it!! i repeated something every day not even knowing what it really meant or if i even believed in it! so sad!! even if their parents don't want them to, other kids will be and they won't understand. "UNDER GOD" GUIDES A CHILD INTO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. children are especially vulnerable. why do you think so many people are religious?!?!! BRAINWASHED AT EARLY AGE!!!!

GET "GOD" OUT OF EVERYTHING RELATED TO GOVERNMENT/PUBLIC SCHOOLS, PERIOD. RELIGION IS A BALL AND CHAIN ATTACHED TO THE LEG OF MAN.

btw, children should NOT have to say the pledge in school, anyway. LOVE OF COUNTRY SHOULD BE A REAL THING YOU BELIEVE, NOT A REPETITIVE STATEMENT YOU'RE TOLD TO SAY EVERY DAY! WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you love your mother, do you have to be told to repeat every day that you love your mother!!!!!!!? THE WORLD IS FUCKED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO AWAY WITH ALL THIS OBVIOUS BULLSHIT!!!!!! I DON'T CARE HOW LONG IT'S BEEN GOING ON OR HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BLIND.
 
Quote from Gordon Gekko:


APHEX, YOU ARE THE PRESENT DAY EQUIVALENT OF SOMEONE CLAIMING THE EARTH IS FLAT--EVEN THOUGH IT'S ROUND, BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T ACCEPT IT YET. OF COURSE YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS. BUT DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S EXACTLY HOW PEOPLE ACTED WHEN IT WAS THOUGHT THE EARTH WAS ROUND AND NOT FLAT. YOU NEED TO GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!! it is CLEAR you are a conflicted individual TORN between science and religion. FREE YOURSELF FROM THE CRAP THAT IS HOLDING YOU BACK!!! you have extra pieces to a puzzle that don't fit anywhere--THROW THEM AWAY!!

funny; i think the total opposite. if they don't get this religious crap out of government and public schools, i want to move to another country. this is CRUCIAL.

it is a NO brainier to take it out of the pledge, off our money, etc.

NO ONE is stopping ANY person to worship ANY "god" they want. SO DON'T GIVE US SOME CRAP ABOUT WE'RE RUINING THINGS FOR YOU. DO ALL THE PRAYING YOU WANT--BUT IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS NOR A PUBLIC SCHOOL'S.

also keep in mind, THE PLEDGE DID NOT ORIGINALLY HAVE "UNDER GOD" IN IT!!!

think of little kids in school. they don't know enough to make their own choices. they just say "under god" every day because it is suggested to them. even i used to do it!! i repeated something every day not even knowing what it really meant or if i even believed in it! so sad!! even if their parents don't want them to, other kids will be and they won't understand. "UNDER GOD" GUIDES A CHILD INTO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. children are especially vulnerable. why do you think so many people are religious?!?!! BRAINWASHED AT EARLY AGE!!!!

GET "GOD" OUT OF EVERYTHING RELATED TO GOVERNMENT/PUBLIC SCHOOLS, PERIOD. RELIGION IS A BALL AND CHAIN ATTACHED TO THE LEG OF MAN.

btw, children should NOT have to say the pledge in school, anyway. LOVE OF COUNTRY SHOULD BE A REAL THING YOU BELIEVE, NOT A REPETITIVE STATEMENT YOU'RE TOLD TO SAY EVERY DAY! WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you love your mother, do you have to be told to repeat every day that you love your mother!!!!!!!? THE WORLD IS FUCKED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO AWAY WITH ALL THIS OBVIOUS BULLSHIT!!!!!! I DON'T CARE HOW LONG IT'S BEEN GOING ON OR HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BLIND.
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Are you this dumb because you practiced at it or is it from all the inbreeding in your family ? here's hoping you leave the country, although you once promised to leave ET and we see how that worked out.
 
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