Please tell me the term for......

learner2007 said:
Would someone please tell me the term in English for holding both a long and short position at the same time in a futures contract. I realize this may not be allowed by some exchanges or brokers but is allowed where I am.

Thank you.
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I wonder if the term 'straddle',as used with options,　would be correct?
 
In the old days, you could do what you are describing with stocks. You could have a long position in shares and a short position at the same time. To open a short position the order type would be Sell Short or Sell to Open. Another order type to close a long position would be Sell to Close. But this changed many years ago. Now a Sell order will close an equivalent open long position, or initiate a short position. A Buy order will close an equivalent short position, or initiate a long position. So you won't be holding both long and short positions at the same time for the same symbol because they net out.

You posted your question in the futures forum. While my futures brokers handle this the same way as stocks, I don't know if all futures brokers will net them out. If you are hedging a physical commodity or a stock position, there might be a good reason to allow holding long and short positions at the same time.

Now if you are really talking about structuring an order for a breakout strategy (not holding open long/short positions), then you might be referring to a bracket entry order.
 
Trader13 said:
In the old days, you could do what you are describing with stocks. You could have a long position in shares and a short position at the same time. To open a short position the order type would be Sell Short or Sell to Open. Another order type to close a long position would be Sell to Close. But this changed many years ago. Now a Sell order will close an equivalent open long position, or initiate a short position. A Buy order will close an equivalent short position, or initiate a long position. So you won't be holding both long and short positions at the same time for the same symbol because they net out.

You posted your question in the futures forum. While my futures brokers handle this the same way as stocks, I don't know if all futures brokers will net them out. If you are hedging a physical commodity or a stock position, there might be a good reason to allow holding long and short positions at the same time.

Now if you are really talking about structuring an order for a breakout strategy (not holding open long/short positions), then you might be referring to a bracket entry order.
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Thank you. Actually more than a type of order, I was looking for the term for this type of position. While I thought of straddle it really doesn't fit as you would be buying both a put and call rather than buying and selling a put/call.
 
if you do not understand that being long and short at the same time creates a net-zero position and closing one contract exposes you directionally and if you do not understand that this is precisely the same as being flat and then entering a position in one contract at precisely the price where you would close one of the 2 contracts from your example then you should not even be trading or call yourself trader because you did not even pass 101 basic calculus.

learner2007 said:
This came up last night in a discussion about trading tactics when a non-native English speaker asked me what you call it in English. I only trade on reactions so I don't know, but as I remember he places a stop loss order for each position which often eliminates missing an entry due to the time that would be needed to place a new order in the direction of the breakout. I can see often getting whipsawed doing this, but he claims it's very favorable on balance.
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volpunter said:
if you do not understand that being long and short at the same time creates a net-zero position and closing one contract exposes you directionally and if you do not understand that this is precisely the same as being flat and then entering a position in one contract at precisely the price where you would close one of the 2 contracts from your example then you should not even be trading or call yourself trader because you did not even pass 101 basic calculus.
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Having been at it for 40 years I think I understand trading. It was the English language term for that type of position that I was asking for.
 
You don't actually "hold" both- your holding is zero. You may have limits orders you are willing to execute based on earlier distinct Buys and Sells, but your holding is zero.

You may be Long 1 on conviction with a Target $1.00 above the current price, but want to make a quick daytrade Short target $0.25 below the current price. You view this as 1 Long and 1 Short, since you have 2 "cover" trades in the system. But your holding is zero, not 1 and -1. When your next "cover" trade executes, your margin will rise, not fall. You will not reduce your exposure to "get out of" "one of" your "two trades."

There is a related issue when you trade spreads.

Consider the following situation. Suppose you own 1 calendar spread between the front two months in Crude Oil, call it CL1 - CL2. The margin on this is roughly $600. In your portfolio, you see +1 CL1 and -1 CL2. Now, suppose you go to "cover" your Short CL2, buying 1. You will see the margin after the "cover" is $5000, or 8 times as high as it was before.
 
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In equities We called them "boxes". The only purpose they served was to lock shorted shares. So you didn't want to short now but wanted to later you could ensure you had those shares already shorted.
 
newwurldmn said:
In equities We called them "boxes". The only purpose they served was to lock shorted shares. So you didn't want to short now but wanted to later you could ensure you had those shares already shorted.
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So, when short sales are restricted, the Exchange would recognize a sale as a sale from length? Wow- clever.
 
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