Please help me fix my #1 trading problem - I keep getting messed up in chop

[heavenskrow]

So last time I talked about chop, one trader on here recommended by looking at the 1st hour's range. If it is very large range, then I can assume a non choppy day or something like that...

Anyways, the first 2 hours was relatively huge, so I assumed we would be getting the same kind of moves.... An opportunity presented itself for counter-trade so I took a short at arrow marked below. My target area was the white line area which where I would cover and possibly rethink of going long based on market action at that level.....
(Which actually did end up happening but overnight when I am sound asleep)
However, it took 5+ hours of chop and I actually ended up getting in and out a ton of times which chopped my P&L into pieces. It didn't even reach the target by the close, so I just gave up by close although market was going towards my direction.

What exactly am I doing wrong?? If I see a market is chopping beforehand, I usually don't waste my time with it unless I see a breakout waiting to happen..... But if a market is MOVING, like the open yesterday on Russell, I expect the same movement until the bell closes??? And maybe I don't realize I am in chop since I have the recent movement in my most distant memory???

Someone please help me from chop....Once I get away from this #1 mistake, I can really improve my results, thank you.

 

[trader99]

where is the chop? Not obvious on your chart.

 

[lindq]

Anyways, the first 2 hours was relatively huge, so I assumed....

There's that word ASSUMED. It's a killer.

 

[Scataphagos]

where is teh chop? Not obvious on your chart.

Ditto.

 

[trader99]

Ditto.

One man's chop is another man's tradeable range.

 

[Scataphagos]

One man's chop is another man's tradeable range.

True that.

Most of what one trader decries as "untradable chop" is mostly tradable by someone with better experience. I only see chop where the reversals are too fast, whippy and large to cope with for me.

 

[heavenskrow]

I mean it's not as bad as other chops, but other chops are more noticeable-

Here is the 1min of the 5minute...

I'm usually a high volatility trader meaning that I do well on FED days, VIX is high.
When the market moves from one level to the next level vs chop chop balance balance, slow price action. Maybe it's that I have my eyes glued to the market and hence I am looking at short term price action too much? Maybe it's that since the most recent move was wisk and sharp, I keep thinking the same movement will be coming? I mean what exactly changes in the market when the market makes a sharp move and then suddenly starts acting very slow? ( I do not know this answer) Maybe it's trying to find an equilibrium? Maybe the consensus of the market is that -------in this recent case, "it should be moving higher, but the smart money knows it should go lower before the next move higher, so thats why smart money is shorting while consensus of market keeps buying hence, the chop/balance, until smart money overwhelms the consensus enough to a low point in the market, where smart money covers and goes long????

 

[Metamega]

The morning open is the price discovery phase. You have 17.5 hours of no trading(stocks).

I swing trade and I pretty much check my account at the open and that’s usually my gains/losses for the day after first 30 minutes.

Day trading would drive me nuts. The open is where the moves happen but it’s so fast.

 

[bone]

So last time I talked about chop, one trader on here recommended by looking at the 1st hour's range. If it is very large range, then I can assume a non choppy day or something like that...

Anyways, the first 2 hours was relatively huge, so I assumed we would be getting the same kind of moves.... An opportunity presented itself for counter-trade so I took a short at arrow marked below. My target area was the white line area which where I would cover and possibly rethink of going long based on market action at that level.....
(Which actually did end up happening but overnight when I am sound asleep)
However, it took 5+ hours of chop and I actually ended up getting in and out a ton of times which chopped my P&L into pieces. It didn't even reach the target by the close, so I just gave up by close although market was going towards my direction.

What exactly am I doing wrong?? If I see a market is chopping beforehand, I usually don't waste my time with it unless I see a breakout waiting to happen..... But if a market is MOVING, like the open yesterday on Russell, I expect the same movement until the bell closes??? And maybe I don't realize I am in chop since I have the recent movement in my most distant memory???

Someone please help me from chop....Once I get away from this #1 mistake, I can really improve my results, thank you.
View attachment 208007

It’s been AWHILE since I have day traded.

A couple of things I used to try to guard against were: 1. Over trading, or 2. Waiting for a “lull” in the market in order to buy a bid or sell an offer and flip it for a tic or two - it’s a false sense of security.

As you are painfully aware - indicators use historical sampled data, and momentum or “chop” indicators might not be relevant until you’re some protracted period of time INTO the chop which does you no good.

Market Profile is essentially a time histogram that emphasizes the concept of market “control areas” and the relevance of trading in established ranges versus “fresh” trading ranges. In other words, there’s some merit to the idea of stepping out quick like a rabbit and hitting a bid or lifting an offer when the market is moving into “fresh territory” and you see more rapid price changes and the dominance of liquidity TAKERS. Conversely, when you see slower price changes over time in an established trading range it’s a wise idea to sit on your hands.

So once the price changes slow down and trading range price no longer improves - that’s a queue for YOU to stop and reassess.

When I am looking for a market to rally - I want to see higher highs and higher lows. Conversely, a quality sell-off must have lower lows and lower highs.

I hope that adds some color. I trained under Pete Steidelmeyer and his work still is very relevant.

I wish you good fortune in the wars to come!

 

[trader99]

I must admit today was quiet in almost all the markets I trade. But i still manage to make some money. Not as high as on good days. But still green and decent. That's what counts.

Sometimes you gotta eke out little gains and they add up. Just gotta grind it out. And at end of day, you look at it and say "Hey, that's not too bad for a slow small range day."