He's not even talking about that - he's talking about lame brokers who don't offset the spread properly using the exchange mandated margins but instead said broker charges margin *per* leg. Nobody is asking about software to calculate margin offsets here.
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Platforms with ZERO charge (or very low charge) that allow you to trade exchange spreads
- Thread starter propwarrior
- Start date
He's not even talking about that - he's talking about lame brokers who don't offset the spread properly using the exchange mandated margins but instead said broker charges margin *per* leg. Nobody is asking about software to calculate margin offsets here.
And I have worked 15 years at various banks as dealer and prop trader so please kindly allow me to also share another angle of the same issue: it is generally not the poor fcms or banks or brokers that get fleeced but it is he customers. And now running my own gig I understand the other guy all too well when he says he looks to keep costs down. An FCM loses NOTHING from a client who had a big mouth but traded little to nothing. A client on the other side who relies on what some guys on an anonymous forum tell him takes a lot of risk hoping an FCM may do this or that, all on the hopes of eventualities. I am very critical and outspoken Against FCMs in general because they are unnecessary middlemen, some add value above their regulatory function, others don't. But even charging opaque commission rather than offering transparent commission schedules is something I criticized for years and which adds to the mistrust people have in FCMs. Their sales men come out all the time to put a spin and great sounding story around this topic but so far none of the arguments convinced.
To sum up, if it was as you claim it is then the FCMs should have no problem to put it in writing and advertise upfront, "platform fee waived after xxxx number contracts executed in any given calendar month" or the like.
All else is misleading, disingenuous and raises all sorts of questions. There is a reason FCMs have never existed or else been disposed of in all other jurisdictions. But American "industry regulators" (cough cough) for obvious reasons stubbornly resist any change.
To sum up, if it was as you claim it is then the FCMs should have no problem to put it in writing and advertise upfront, "platform fee waived after xxxx number contracts executed in any given calendar month" or the like.
All else is misleading, disingenuous and raises all sorts of questions. There is a reason FCMs have never existed or else been disposed of in all other jurisdictions. But American "industry regulators" (cough cough) for obvious reasons stubbornly resist any change.
Are you intentionally choosing to not listen to me or am I really speaking over your head. Here, let me help you out. I spent 8 years in the chicago prop community and I had a lot of friends that ran IBs. I know a little bit about what goes on there so let me help you out here. Here is what an FCM does NOT want. Some guy rolls in like a BSD and says he is going to do 50 billion contracts a month to get whole sale costs plus other perks like free TT. The dude puts in some money and ends up doing 15 contracts the first month, 30 the 2nd and blows out his account and leaves.
I don't know of a single firm in Chicago that will not pay 100% of your software costs if you are trading. It matters not how they get their money as long as they get it. So because a lot of guys talk a big game with no follow through, firms no longer eat that up front cost. They make you pay for the platform so it doesn't come out of their pocket. Once you "actually" start trading, most these firms will cover your costs if the volume is there. Why? There is no reason not to. That is what I'm trying to tell you. Certainly for something like T4 any firm will pay that for you if you are doing volume.
Which comes back to my first post, the platforms are free. And speaking of Advantage, they have some nice office space in downtown. If you are doing nice volume they will set you up with space on their dime. It's one of their "perks". Hopefully this is more clear to you now.
Turnover does not equal profit, at least so I remember. Or is teaching your hobby?
I've traded more energy in my lifetime than you young Skywalker - I'd be happy to wager.
Have you considered using IBs API? Or the one of your broker of choice? If you don't program yourself you could hire someone and shell out a few grand and get exactly what you want. It will cost you most definitely less than half a year the charges of the mentioned other platforms.
I already have an account with interactive brokers so have been using the free TWS platform, it's clunky but it works ok. The purpose of the thread was to see if anyone had any alternatives. Most people answered sensibly but you turned it into a 'free platforms are rubbish' thread and threw in some trading course proganda, untruths and low blows for good measure.
I am not buying your passive aggressive good luck wish.
And I have worked 15 years at various banks as dealer and prop trader so please kindly allow me to also share another angle of the same issue: it is generally not the poor fcms or banks or brokers that get fleeced but it is he customers. And now running my own gig I understand the other guy all too well when he says he looks to keep costs down. An FCM loses NOTHING from a client who had a big mouth but traded little to nothing. A client on the other side who relies on what some guys on an anonymous forum tell him takes a lot of risk hoping an FCM may do this or that, all on the hopes of eventualities. I am very critical and outspoken Against FCMs in general because they are unnecessary middlemen, some add value above their regulatory function, others don't. But even charging opaque commission rather than offering transparent commission schedules is something I criticized for years and which adds to the mistrust people have in FCMs. Their sales men come out all the time to put a spin and great sounding story around this topic but so far none of the arguments convinced.
To sum up, if it was as you claim it is then the FCMs should have no problem to put it in writing and advertise upfront, "platform fee waived after xxxx number contracts executed in any given calendar month" or the like.
All else is misleading, disingenuous and raises all sorts of questions. There is a reason FCMs have never existed or else been disposed of in all other jurisdictions. But American "industry regulators" (cough cough) for obvious reasons stubbornly resist any change.
Hey Mate, what the flying fuck was in your scotch tonight? You are rambling on here about absolutely nothing. Stop responding to my posts as if you are making a point. I don't own an FCM, work for one, or affiliated with one or any trading software what so ever. The OP wanted to find free trading software and a few of us responded in kind. Finish your scotch and get back to the markets. You are turning this thread into a train wreck not that it wasn't going there anyway but good Lord, save the PSA announcement for breast cancer awareness month. Good day Mate!
Which is a very low bar to pass. ET sponsorship now is a sign of approval of sorts?
... afford a Sponsorship puts him at a higher station than 99% of those on ET.
Well the argument was made earlier that this is where the value of FCMs lies and how they justify charging for those platforms.
Why is a broker lame who decides to play it safer than most other brokers. Are you aware how many FCMs and brokers have gone bust in the past 10 or 15 years alone due to overall too lenient margin terms? I would claim currently your money is safer with Interactive Brokers than any other retail facing broker, US clearer, or FCM.
Why is a broker lame who decides to play it safer than most other brokers. Are you aware how many FCMs and brokers have gone bust in the past 10 or 15 years alone due to overall too lenient margin terms? I would claim currently your money is safer with Interactive Brokers than any other retail facing broker, US clearer, or FCM.
He's not even talking about that - he's talking about lame brokers who don't offset the spread properly using the exchange mandated margins but instead said broker charges margin *per* leg. Nobody is asking about software to calculate margin offsets here.
Tripped on some wires? Were you not the one who clearly misunderstood the OP over multiple pages? I found the author of the OP was concise and clear and you kept on pushing your own line of thought which was in utter disagreement with what the author wants and is looking for. Cheers mate
Hey Mate, what the flying fuck was in your scotch tonight? You are rambling on here about absolutely nothing. Stop responding to my posts as if you are making a point. I don't own an FCM, work for one, or affiliated with one or any trading software what so ever. The OP wanted to find free trading software and a few of us responded in kind. Finish your scotch and get back to the markets. You are turning this thread into a train wreck not that it wasn't going there anyway but good Lord, save the PSA announcement for breast cancer awareness month. Good day Mate!
Tripped on some wires? Were you not the one who clearly misunderstood the OP over multiple pages? I found the author of the OP was concise and clear and you kept on pushing your own line of thought which was in utter disagreement with what the author wants and is looking for. Cheers mate
You are confusing me with someone else mate. Side effect of drinking I guess. He asked for platform suggestions, I mentioned one. Then you start on lecturing everyone on this thread about the big bad FCMs. I think we are all adults here mate. We can make our own choices thank you very much. It seems the only one on this thread with an agenda appears to be you. Fancy that.
I did not lecture anyone, if you felt addressed then maybe you have some studying to catch up on?
It was you who
- did not understand the 6k cap charge per annum even after it was explained to you several times
- "garbage in garbage out", basically implying a free platform is not as good as the ones that were touted here. You however, never explained why, unfortunately.
The OP was asking for a free platform. Is that so utterly hard to comprehend? Firms like IB understand that their platform expense is a cost they pay to acquire and maintain business. Other operators try to convince clients they have something magical that warrants passing all those costs to the customer, fattening the middle men even further.
Let's keep it civil, let's agree to disagree. I have not called you names nor accused you of anything and certainly do I not have any intent to lecture someone with close to 22,000 posts, as I would probably be blanketed in posts in any sort of argument. But there is definitely no need to make this personal. Your alluding to drinking and other BS is hopefully not reflective of your level of maturity. Keep it factual, shall we?
It was you who
- did not understand the 6k cap charge per annum even after it was explained to you several times
- "garbage in garbage out", basically implying a free platform is not as good as the ones that were touted here. You however, never explained why, unfortunately.
The OP was asking for a free platform. Is that so utterly hard to comprehend? Firms like IB understand that their platform expense is a cost they pay to acquire and maintain business. Other operators try to convince clients they have something magical that warrants passing all those costs to the customer, fattening the middle men even further.
Let's keep it civil, let's agree to disagree. I have not called you names nor accused you of anything and certainly do I not have any intent to lecture someone with close to 22,000 posts, as I would probably be blanketed in posts in any sort of argument. But there is definitely no need to make this personal. Your alluding to drinking and other BS is hopefully not reflective of your level of maturity. Keep it factual, shall we?
You are confusing me with someone else mate. Side effect of drinking I guess. He asked for platform suggestions, I mentioned one. Then you start on lecturing everyone on this thread about the big bad FCMs. I think we are all adults here mate. We can make our own choices thank you very much. It seems the only one on this thread with an agenda appears to be you. Fancy that.