Plan for a Part Time Swing trader?

[Trade4_Freedom]

Hi EliteTrader members, I am a beginner wanting to get into swing trading. I currently hold a full time job in Toronto, so I cannot trade the North American markets during work.

So I am thinking is it a good idea to trade the Hang Seng markets after work? They open a few hrs after I finish work.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

 

[J.Joseph]

Quote from Trade4_Freedom:

Hi EliteTrader members, I am a beginner wanting to get into swing trading. I currently hold a full time job in Toronto, so I cannot trade the North American markets during work.

So I am thinking is it a good idea to trade the Hang Seng markets after work? They open a few hrs after I finish work.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

First, get your advice elsewhere. There are no successful traders here. I come here once in a while to entertain myself, and I actually trade worse afterwords.

Second, swing trading may be too short of a time frame for what you need. Try using 60 minute time bars, nothing shorter than that, and get a broker service that can set up OTO (One Triggers Other) orders. Then you can set up the order to buy at a limit price. And, when it is triggered, the order to sell at a lower limit price will activate.
Do all the set-ups after market hours and make adjustments to the order Sunday through Thursday at your convenience. It'll take 15 minutes per day.
With a good system, expect each trade to last 2 to 3 weeks on average, with a 3 to 5% return per month.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from Trade4_Freedom:

Hi EliteTrader members, I am a beginner wanting to get into swing trading. I currently hold a full time job in Toronto, so I cannot trade the North American markets during work.

So I am thinking is it a good idea to trade the Hang Seng markets after work? They open a few hrs after I finish work.

Thanks in advance for any advice,

First, get your advice here. There are successful traders here. I come here once in a while to entertain myself, and I actually trade better afterwords.

Second, swing trading is the perfect time frame for what you need. Try using daily time bars, nothing shorter than that, and get a broker service. Then you can set up the order to buy at a market price by calling your broker after open on your cell phone. Follow the instructions on the one pager "unusual volume". Get the Universe using the seven part filter called PVT filter. (two googles are required)

Do all the planned trades after market hours and make adjustments to the plan on Sundays. It'll take 15 minutes per evening also
.
With this system, expect each trade to last 4 to 5 days on average, with a 10% return per trade. You can double capital 6 times a year.

 

[TD80]

98% of the population can't trade their way out of a paper bag. It just seems worse on ET because of the number of aliases per individual running about. It doesn't matter where you go.

At any rate I suggest you consider 10,000 hour rule of thumb. Mind you this is an average (at any given thing there will be someone who takes a few thousands hours and someone who will never, ever master or possibly even become proficient). A really good mentor (goodluck finding a legit one if they aren't a family friend or otherwise engaged with you already) can accelerate this process if the student is ready.

You presume to embark in something where I really believe the 10,000 hour rule applies. Between 0->10,000, making the rather dubious assumption you make it to the other end, you will likely lose all of your risk capital at least once, and likely endure painful psychological transformation(s).

The dream isn't free, it actually tends to come at a terrible cost.

My thinking is it is actually easier to become a dermatologist (low insurance premiums) or a surgeon in the right uncompetitive market, bank your 700K+ a year, and just asset-allocate. There is a simple plan to make a big fortune, and frankly is probably easier and has a higher success rate...

 

[Handle123]

If a beginner, I suggest going with weekly bars but only after much study and backtesting. This way you can trade US markets. I think most have it wrong to do short term first and shorter the timeframe, most likely they will blow out accounts. Shorter the term, have to have exit solutions imbedded into your brain so as it becomes like breathing and no hesitation on what to do after your entry. I laugh at how many people enter day trading and short term trading when they have no idea when to get out. Learn how to trade slowly, learn price action first before adding any indicators if at all. You have to learn how to crawl before sprinting.

 

[Trade4_Freedom]

Quote from Handle123:

If a beginner, I suggest going with weekly bars but only after much study and backtesting. This way you can trade US markets. I think most have it wrong to do short term first and shorter the timeframe, most likely they will blow out accounts. Shorter the term, have to have exit solutions imbedded into your brain so as it becomes like breathing and no hesitation on what to do after your entry. I laugh at how many people enter day trading and short term trading when they have no idea when to get out. Learn how to trade slowly, learn price action first before adding any indicators if at all. You have to learn how to crawl before sprinting.

What do you mean by price action? Is that the stuff like moving avg?

 

[Trade4_Freedom]

Quote from jack hershey:

First, get your advice here. There are successful traders here. I come here once in a while to entertain myself, and I actually trade better afterwords.

Second, swing trading is the perfect time frame for what you need. Try using daily time bars, nothing shorter than that, and get a broker service. Then you can set up the order to buy at a market price by calling your broker after open on your cell phone. Follow the instructions on the one pager "unusual volume". Get the Universe using the seven part filter called PVT filter. (two googles are required)

Do all the planned trades after market hours and make adjustments to the plan on Sundays. It'll take 15 minutes per evening also
.
With this system, expect each trade to last 4 to 5 days on average, with a 10% return per trade. You can double capital 6 times a year.

So it is doable to swing trade with a full time job? I am afraid I won't be able to make good entries if I don't do it real time.

 

[clacy]

My recommendation:

Keep your day job and don't plan on quitting any time soon. Take the vast majority of your money and put it into a very balanced asset allocation strategy that includes a large amount of bonds and inflation heges and a smaller amount of market exposure. This way while your learning to trade most of your money is at lest compounding and getting some sort of real return while keeping volatility minimized.

Then park $1-2k into a forex broker. You can trade forex most 24 hours/day. You can learn to trade price action from forex and not spend a bunch of money on data and charts while your learning. Of course this assumes you are wanting to pursue a technical trading strategy rather than fundamental.

Once your able to consistently trade your account then you can start to dip your toe into futures, options or equities.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from Trade4_Freedom:

So it is doable to swing trade with a full time job? I am afraid I won't be able to make good entries if I don't do it real time.

Each evening you check your lists by viewing lists and stock charts.

You will notice that a sub set have turned from short to long the day before.

Judiciously you choose the stocks with the highest rank (a term for money velocity).

You also look at what you own. A stock or two will be peaking (unable the continue to make much more money).

You write down what stock to sell and what stock to buy.

You do not make all the trend money that is possible. Of a 20% move in 5 days you only make 10%. Settle for that.

After a while you will notice other factors of trading:

1. your trades are doing well since you enter late and leave early.

2. You will notice that the length of the trade is shorter and gives you more compounds a year. The increased compounds is better than getting best entries and exits.

3. You will notice you can not worry since your Universe is high quality.

4. you could set stops, but you can have your broker do wash trades for you instead. This eliminates drawdowns.

In general there are several stocks every day worth buying. Best entries are not a requirement. Late entries give the best peace of mind for unconfident people. Make a choice to learn to learn how to be confident as a goal. Making money takes care of itself.

One great learning in trading is to learn to tell the difference between a retrace and a reversal. You may not know that as yet. Most posters do not. You can either search and find out the corrct definition or you can figure it out according to your learning process.

I worked for five years while trading this way. 2 and 1/2 years into trading my salary and commissions were about equal. I kept working to add money to my account and I travelled to Europe each summer vacation (Itook an extra week each year).

 

[xrod55]

Just curious why you don't think you're able to swing trade from work? I can see day trading from work would be quite difficult, but swing trading? Please explain.