Plame under oath
- Thread starter Dr. Zhivodka
- Start date
I know many of you just hate Republicans in general and suspend your critical abilities when they are being attacked. But I have to say I am surprised how easily duped most of you seem to be.
This Plame affair is a classic Washington media circus, orchestrated by a dirtbag socialist congressman, Henry Waxman, who has made a career out of this sort of thing. You might wonder why there are never media circuses when Republicans are in charge. The simple answer is the mainstream media simply ignore or downplay Republican-led investigations. It is instructive that this story is running in parallel with the US Attorneys "scandal", another made for TV media circus, full of hypocritical chest thumping.
I give Waxman credit for knowing how to stage manage a media circus. Let's leave aside the spectacle of leftwing democrats, who have done more to destroy the effectiveness of the CIA than the KGB ever did, waxing indignant about secret assets being burned. How many have they burned over the years via leaks, investigations, etc? No one gives a damn. Plame's testimony was beautifully coached and managed. She looked as great as that school teacher who did her students, a hot middle aged blond. She presented herself as an heroic lone woman, risking her life for her country, only to be cruelly undermined by the evil KKKarl Rove out of mean spirited partisan rancor. Why she had nothing to do with her husband getting that assignment, she asserted in true Clintonian innocence. (I guess the memo she wrote recommending him was faked up by Rove too.)
And she was too "covert", she claimed. Of course, she had to reinvent a new meaning of the word. She claimed that, like a general, once covert, always covert. As Toensing pointed out, that is not what the statue says, so all her claims about covertness really don't mean much. When asked about the law, she batted her eyelashes and murmurred that she wasn't a lawyer, so she couldn't say.
I hate to spoil the fun, but consider a couple of facts. First, it is clear she pushed her husband for the assignment. There are documents that prove that. Why else would the agency send some broken-down ex-diplomat with no expertise on such a mission. What does it say about the CIA that they didn't have some better way of tracking this down? What does it say that they didn't use minimal spycraft and get him to sign a confidentiality agreement so he couldn't go off writing books and giving speeches about his "secret" mission? Was it just their standard incompetency or did Plame have allies in trying to misuse her position for partisan ( and now financial) purposes?
Now consider how she and her husband labored to protect her supposed "covert" status. She drove through the main gate at Langley every morning, hardly SOP for covert operatives. Do you honestly think our enemies don't video everyone who comes and goes there? I drive past it several times a week. It is on a busy public street, not exactly a secret who comes and goes.
She contributed to the Gore campaign in the name of her supposed cover employer. Is that how an agent maintains cover, to make fraudulent claims on public disclosure forms? How about her husband? Remember, none of this came out until he wrote his NYT editorial, shortly before joining the Kerry campaign. If your wife is a secret agent, are you protecting her cover by starting a nasty political fight over the very assignment she sent you on? Wasn't it totally predictable that someone would ask, who is this bozo and who sent him to africa?
She complained that the adminsitration tried to "discredit " her husband. That was the one thing she said that was true. What are they supposed to do, agree with him that they were lying? The ultimate irony of course is that his mission proved nothing, other than perhaps government officials in Niger didn't immediately implicate themselves in WMD proliferation. He certainly didn't disprove the central contention, which was that an Iraq delegation headed by a nuclear scientist made a trade visit to Niger.
As a political observer I have mixed feelings. I see this whole episode as basically a joke played on rubes like most of you with the media's help. I feel sorry for Scooter Libby, whose name will forever be used as a synonym for "fall guy." But I do admire Waxman for being a damn effective hitman. And you have to admire the Wilson/Plames. They are the toast of Georgetown and LA, have banked millions off this thing and will get rich for years off it.
This Plame affair is a classic Washington media circus, orchestrated by a dirtbag socialist congressman, Henry Waxman, who has made a career out of this sort of thing. You might wonder why there are never media circuses when Republicans are in charge. The simple answer is the mainstream media simply ignore or downplay Republican-led investigations. It is instructive that this story is running in parallel with the US Attorneys "scandal", another made for TV media circus, full of hypocritical chest thumping.
I give Waxman credit for knowing how to stage manage a media circus. Let's leave aside the spectacle of leftwing democrats, who have done more to destroy the effectiveness of the CIA than the KGB ever did, waxing indignant about secret assets being burned. How many have they burned over the years via leaks, investigations, etc? No one gives a damn. Plame's testimony was beautifully coached and managed. She looked as great as that school teacher who did her students, a hot middle aged blond. She presented herself as an heroic lone woman, risking her life for her country, only to be cruelly undermined by the evil KKKarl Rove out of mean spirited partisan rancor. Why she had nothing to do with her husband getting that assignment, she asserted in true Clintonian innocence. (I guess the memo she wrote recommending him was faked up by Rove too.)
And she was too "covert", she claimed. Of course, she had to reinvent a new meaning of the word. She claimed that, like a general, once covert, always covert. As Toensing pointed out, that is not what the statue says, so all her claims about covertness really don't mean much. When asked about the law, she batted her eyelashes and murmurred that she wasn't a lawyer, so she couldn't say.
I hate to spoil the fun, but consider a couple of facts. First, it is clear she pushed her husband for the assignment. There are documents that prove that. Why else would the agency send some broken-down ex-diplomat with no expertise on such a mission. What does it say about the CIA that they didn't have some better way of tracking this down? What does it say that they didn't use minimal spycraft and get him to sign a confidentiality agreement so he couldn't go off writing books and giving speeches about his "secret" mission? Was it just their standard incompetency or did Plame have allies in trying to misuse her position for partisan ( and now financial) purposes?
Now consider how she and her husband labored to protect her supposed "covert" status. She drove through the main gate at Langley every morning, hardly SOP for covert operatives. Do you honestly think our enemies don't video everyone who comes and goes there? I drive past it several times a week. It is on a busy public street, not exactly a secret who comes and goes.
She contributed to the Gore campaign in the name of her supposed cover employer. Is that how an agent maintains cover, to make fraudulent claims on public disclosure forms? How about her husband? Remember, none of this came out until he wrote his NYT editorial, shortly before joining the Kerry campaign. If your wife is a secret agent, are you protecting her cover by starting a nasty political fight over the very assignment she sent you on? Wasn't it totally predictable that someone would ask, who is this bozo and who sent him to africa?
She complained that the adminsitration tried to "discredit " her husband. That was the one thing she said that was true. What are they supposed to do, agree with him that they were lying? The ultimate irony of course is that his mission proved nothing, other than perhaps government officials in Niger didn't immediately implicate themselves in WMD proliferation. He certainly didn't disprove the central contention, which was that an Iraq delegation headed by a nuclear scientist made a trade visit to Niger.
As a political observer I have mixed feelings. I see this whole episode as basically a joke played on rubes like most of you with the media's help. I feel sorry for Scooter Libby, whose name will forever be used as a synonym for "fall guy." But I do admire Waxman for being a damn effective hitman. And you have to admire the Wilson/Plames. They are the toast of Georgetown and LA, have banked millions off this thing and will get rich for years off it.
"The simple answer is the mainstream media simply ignore or downplay Republican-led investigations."
Oh yeah, no one knew about the Clinton Republican-led investigations and impeachment process, and the main stream media didn't cover it, and there was no media circus surrounding it...
"But I do admire Waxman for being a damn effective hitman. And you have to admire the Wilson/Plames. They are the toast of Georgetown and LA, have banked millions off this thing and will get rich for years off it."
You deride these people, then admire them?
Fascinating...
Oh yeah, no one knew about the Clinton Republican-led investigations and impeachment process, and the main stream media didn't cover it, and there was no media circus surrounding it...
"But I do admire Waxman for being a damn effective hitman. And you have to admire the Wilson/Plames. They are the toast of Georgetown and LA, have banked millions off this thing and will get rich for years off it."
You deride these people, then admire them?
Fascinating...
Wow, we must have an expert on covert operations here. Why do Republican supporters cut their IQ's by half whenever their propaganda conflicts with reality?
Valerie Plame was an "energy analyst" for "Brewster Jennings & Associates." When her cover was blown, it also blew the cover for the front company where she had "a desk job," and everyone working in Brewster Jennings & Associates was put in danger. We have no idea how large the damage was. This was not the case of just outing a single agent. This sabotaged the whole proliferation operation, when we were facing serious threats from Iran, North Korea, and Pakistan. How can this not be treason?
People's lives may have been put in danger or it may have cost some covert operatives, aka, US moles, their lives. It is plain treason. I hope the long arm of the law will get those culprits and punish them.
I don't like the characterization of Libby as a "fall guy."
He's a perjurer. Just as Clinton should've been impeached for perjury, Libby should go to jail for it.
Perjury a VERY serious matter. Society can't allow miscarriages of justice to occur because of people lying their asses off under oath. Both Clinton and Libby were attorneys. Figures.
I know the SP looked real hard at the question of Plame's covert status and concluded there was no violation of the law in that specific regard.
I don't know the basis for why the decision to not prosecute was made. There's several possible reasons.
1. Outing is only a crime if you know the person you're outing is covert. I suppose a fair prosecutor would demand proof of a purposeful outing before he would just ipso facto argue motive to a jury.
2. No one would talk. I presume Plame, Wilson and half the CIA were interviewed by the SP but we don't know what questions (or if any) went unanswered on the basis of "classified." It's possible the SP couldn't adequately ascertain Plame's true status.
3. Plame's statement on the Hill lacked candor. AAA's right. She used legalese qualifiers. I don't trust hot, blonde CIA agents.
I know the SP is a class act. He's very much like Kevin Costner's portrayal of Elliot Ness in the Untouchables. He fancies himself as Ness. He's in Chicago to go after every politician he can. He's nailed guy's from both parties equally. (although there's a zillion Dem's in City Hall about to go down.) I'd say zero chance he could be bought off.
He's a perjurer. Just as Clinton should've been impeached for perjury, Libby should go to jail for it.
Perjury a VERY serious matter. Society can't allow miscarriages of justice to occur because of people lying their asses off under oath. Both Clinton and Libby were attorneys. Figures.
I know the SP looked real hard at the question of Plame's covert status and concluded there was no violation of the law in that specific regard.
I don't know the basis for why the decision to not prosecute was made. There's several possible reasons.
1. Outing is only a crime if you know the person you're outing is covert. I suppose a fair prosecutor would demand proof of a purposeful outing before he would just ipso facto argue motive to a jury.
2. No one would talk. I presume Plame, Wilson and half the CIA were interviewed by the SP but we don't know what questions (or if any) went unanswered on the basis of "classified." It's possible the SP couldn't adequately ascertain Plame's true status.
3. Plame's statement on the Hill lacked candor. AAA's right. She used legalese qualifiers. I don't trust hot, blonde CIA agents.
I know the SP is a class act. He's very much like Kevin Costner's portrayal of Elliot Ness in the Untouchables. He fancies himself as Ness. He's in Chicago to go after every politician he can. He's nailed guy's from both parties equally. (although there's a zillion Dem's in City Hall about to go down.) I'd say zero chance he could be bought off.
This is correct.
And it can go much deeper than just that. Suppose Plame had a source - say Sheik Ali Baba. Now the home country of the sheik knows he's dirty, and many of his 'friends' may be too. Now not only that, but the person NOW running the Sheik is suspect. And the same for any other people Plame may have had, and their 'friends' etc, etc.
I think this is where the term 'once covert, always covert' comes from.....
same old thing. each of us believes one side in full with
the others being a bunch of lyers. i am a natural fan of
democratic ideas, so i am biased. i simply believe that
the current administration is willing to do each and every
thing to maintain power. i believe valerie plame and i
do not believe the reps. it is sad, since, when i think
about it, i don't know too much of the true facts. but
i can't get over the hypocrisy of the clinton impeachment,
the embarrassing rep misconduct at the 2000 election,
the terrible management around katrina, the idiocy of
christian fundamentalists around darwin and i have not
even mentioned iraq or the decider himself.
in my eyes reps have no values besides power and money,
or they have stupid ideas like 7daycreation. hypocrites
or dumb. that's what it boils down to in my eyes. i don't
believe that the dems are all nicest angels you could
think of, but i still think they use means for reason,
while the reps are fond of the means themselves.
so we will get back and forth. the lefties, like myself,
will remain lefties, and same with the righties. pretty
stable world.
the others being a bunch of lyers. i am a natural fan of
democratic ideas, so i am biased. i simply believe that
the current administration is willing to do each and every
thing to maintain power. i believe valerie plame and i
do not believe the reps. it is sad, since, when i think
about it, i don't know too much of the true facts. but
i can't get over the hypocrisy of the clinton impeachment,
the embarrassing rep misconduct at the 2000 election,
the terrible management around katrina, the idiocy of
christian fundamentalists around darwin and i have not
even mentioned iraq or the decider himself.
in my eyes reps have no values besides power and money,
or they have stupid ideas like 7daycreation. hypocrites
or dumb. that's what it boils down to in my eyes. i don't
believe that the dems are all nicest angels you could
think of, but i still think they use means for reason,
while the reps are fond of the means themselves.
so we will get back and forth. the lefties, like myself,
will remain lefties, and same with the righties. pretty
stable world.