PL and more trades

Rearden Metal · Sep 5, 2006

Here's something so useful, so profoundly key, I should really just keep it quiet and not mention it here. It's ok though, I'm in a generous mood, and most readers will probably just prefer to flame me instead of properly having their intense, personal career changing epiphanies...

"Stick to your plan" is something only losing traders and low-level grinders say!. (Ok, Vendors & 'gurus' probably say it too- but who cares what they think.

) No super-trader putting up heavy six-figures or higher would ever say that!!! Getting 'in the zone', allowing one's intuition to change up and reverse everything on a dime, just because it feels right... If you can't do that, you'll NEVER get rich in this game.

Ok... go ahead and break out your torches and pitchforks on me now. It doesn't matter. I've said all I have to say, and I'm outta this thread anyway...

FastandFurious · Sep 5, 2006

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Here's something so useful, so profoundly key, I should really just keep it quiet and not mention it here. It's ok though, I'm in a generous mood, and most readers will probably just prefer to flame me instead of properly having their intense, personal career changing epiphanies...

"Stick to your plan" is something only losing traders and low-level grinders say!. (Ok, Vendors & 'gurus' probably say it too- but who cares what they think. ) No super-trader putting up heavy six-figures or higher would ever say that!!! Getting 'in the zone', allowing one's intuition to change up and reverse everything on a dime, just because it feels right... If you can't do that, you'll NEVER get rich in this game.

Ok... go ahead and break out your torches and pitchforks on me now. It doesn't matter. I've said all I have to say, and I'm outta this thread anyway...

that's a lot of emotions no?

Thunderdog · Sep 5, 2006

Quote from Rearden Metal:

"Stick to your plan" is something only losing traders and low-level grinders say!.

Damn. I guess I'll have to get one of those "Born to Grind" T-shirts. Really.

datav · Sep 6, 2006

In my experience, working to a target number of pointws is very helpful. If you just trade every set up, there will always be money left on the table. By working to a set number of points each day, not looking at the P&L, you can build confidence and achieve consistency and get to believe in your system. When you really have that working, increase the number of contracts.

What needs to happen is to become a good trader first. Then later you can make some money. Amateurs always start off thinking "how much can I make?" a pro thinks "how much can I loose"

Bearbelly · Sep 6, 2006

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Here's something so useful, so profoundly key, I should really just keep it quiet and not mention it here. It's ok though, I'm in a generous mood, and most readers will probably just prefer to flame me instead of properly having their intense, personal career changing epiphanies...

"Stick to your plan" is something only losing traders and low-level grinders say!. (Ok, Vendors & 'gurus' probably say it too- but who cares what they think. ) No super-trader putting up heavy six-figures or higher would ever say that!!! Getting 'in the zone', allowing one's intuition to change up and reverse everything on a dime, just because it feels right... If you can't do that, you'll NEVER get rich in this game.

Ok... go ahead and break out your torches and pitchforks on me now. It doesn't matter. I've said all I have to say, and I'm outta this thread anyway...

I think youre probably right about this but how do you get to this point? I dont believe a new trader can trade by gut feeling and it is essential to have a plan in the beginning.

scalper21 · Sep 6, 2006

Quote from FastandFurious:

calling it quits after a good day isn't necessarily a bad thing but I just think it's not the way to go. I mean. there are opportunities right in my face, solid strategy, and there shouldn't be any to leave all that cash on the table.

I first have to say that I truly enjoyed reading this thread. NihabaAshi comments have been educational and fast&furious honesty has been very helpful. The analogy I would like to use is a sports analogy.

Lets say we were talking about baseball and all of us played different positions. You fast and furious were a 103 mph reliever. You have been in the league for 4 years and finally found your niche. As a starting pitcher you are a career 3-15 record. As a middle reliever your ERA was 9.0. But in the ninth inning after 100 innings pitched as ninth inning closer your ERA is 1.6.

After 2 seasons as the closer you are the best. Lets say in the middle of the third season your team is winning the division and you have not lost a save. Then you decide to say this to a reporter and your team.

"Well you know I do not want to just be known as a great reliever. I want to be a starter. I need to be known as the greatest pitcher that ever lived. By the way I need to be traded to a national league team because I also want to be known as one of the best hitters to ever play the game"

People would think this guy is crazy. I am not saying you are crazy. But remember every great athlete became great because they understood their talent and worked within the framework of that talent.

I worked on the floor of the CME. Let me tell you that there were many multi multi multi millionaires who only traded the open!!

I am writing this because I was in the same boat as you. I would sit in front of the computer and trade the whole day. I felt like the more effort the more reward. Well I have found the opposite is true for me. 80% of the time I only trade the first hour because that is where I make 95% of my money. When I try to trade the whole day I seem to be prone to turning positive days into negative. I also seem to burn out by the end of the month if I trade the whole day.

My strategy now is to increase my size within the first hour of the day. My consistency and profitability have increased dramatically.

Rearden Metal · Sep 6, 2006

Quote from Bearbelly:

I think youre probably right about this but how do you get to this point? I dont believe a new trader can trade by gut feeling and it is essential to have a plan in the beginning.

Attention Deficit 'Disorder' is very improperly named, since it is clearly more of a mixed blessing than a true disorder. When ADD 'sufferers' are genuinely interested & engaged in something, we are capable of extreme hyper-focus.
While most of the population functions at 30% nearly all of the time, ADD individuals function at either 100% or 0-10%, depending on what we're doing.

This hyper-focus comes naturally to those with ADD. I'm not sure if it can be artificially cultivated, but a good place to find out would probably be by reading 'Flow' by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi,
or that 'Trading in the Zone' book. To be honest I haven't read either one, because I don't need to.

Thunderdog · Sep 6, 2006

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Attention Deficit 'Disorder' is very improperly named, since it is clearly more of a mixed blessing than a true disorder. When ADD 'sufferers' are genuinely interested & engaged in something, we are capable of extreme hyper-focus.
While most of the population functions at 30% nearly all of the time, ADD individuals function at either 100% or 0-10%, depending on what we're doing.

This hyper-focus comes naturally to those with ADD. I'm not sure if it can be artificially cultivated, but a good place to find out would probably be by reading 'Flow' by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi,
or that 'Trading in the Zone' book. To be honest I haven't read either one, because I don't need to.

Your response to Bearbelly would suggest that only people born with this "gift" can realistically trade in the manner you suggested earlier. Since you are not sure that this hyper-focus can be artificially cultivated, the implication is that the rest of us are destined to remain losers and low-level grinders. Perhaps you have a point, since I have already ordered my "Born to Grind" T-shirt. Even so, that's quite a pronouncement on your part.

Rearden Metal · Sep 6, 2006

Quote from Thunderdog:

Your response to Bearbelly would suggest that only people born with this "gift" can realistically trade in the manner you suggested earlier. Since you are not sure that this hyper-focus can be artificially cultivated, the implication is that the rest of us are destined to remain losers and low-level grinders. Perhaps you have a point, since I have already ordered my "Born to Grind" T-shirt. Even so, that's quite a pronouncement on your part.

Come on TD, you're exaggerating a bit on what I've said here.
But since you seem to really want one, I WILL provide a dramatic, 'black or white' statement:

If you don't have the pattern recognition skills to crack This puzzle in under 15 minutes, you'll NEVER get rich from discretionary short-term trading. (Note I said "You won't get rich"- NOT; "You won't make a comfortable living".)

I've seen this puzzle cracked in under 2 minutes, by a top poker pro who consistently earns six-figures/year. I wasn't timing myself back when I first tried it, but solid traders generally crack this in under 10 minutes.

...So how long did it take you?

AKUMATOTENSHI · Sep 6, 2006

P&L sheets/frames are the thing I look at the end of the day only. I was asked how much money I make a day or what my target is. My response is now "As much as possible." When I was looking at the P&L I was worried about the winning/losing average and detracting concentration on making a good trade. As for the ADD comment people with it do have an advantage only if it fits with there trading style. The validation people are getting from looking at the P&L is taking time away from other more beneficial activities.