PhD without the guts
- Thread starter ADX_trader
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Well there will still be automated back offices: automated trading platforms, clearing firms, some types of arbitrage, hedge funds etc. The classic entry level clerk or desk/phone job will simply evolve - well it already has evolved quite a bit from when I started.
Even today there are still clerk type jobs on the floors in chicago and new york ..... Perhaps the clerk of tomorrow is already a programmer ...
Here is the reason why 'stupid" people still want to teach in colleges. This is my first year in teaching after few years in industry. I earn 17K less than I was making, but I am the happiest guy on the planet; I work 10 Hours a week (I do some research when I want) and still earn probably more than a lot of people on this board!!. Beyond everything, I still have plenty of time to lose a bit of my pay in the market 
, but hopefully the trend is starting to reverse.
MomoNY
, but hopefully the trend is starting to reverse.MomoNY
Quote from ADX_trader:
Recently, I read about the biographies of many PhD and professors in Finance/Statistics/Econ. Many of them admitted that they felt more comfortable doing analysis, risk management and research than trading. Some of them even said they afraid to put on the trades. So they went to top tier universities to get a degree and then found a job in the big companies. It seems they have more knowledge than me but just don't have the guts to trade. Is there any way to train a person to have more guts?
I guess you are right. I had the same feeling for a while.
I am working towards my Ph.D. in one of the field you mentioned, and also do trade stocks, futures,etc. I learned a lot about mkt by trading rather from classroom lessons.
Quote from ADX_trader:
Recently, I read about the biographies of many PhD and professors in Finance/Statistics/Econ. Many of them admitted that they felt more comfortable doing analysis, risk management and research than trading. Some of them even said they afraid to put on the trades. So they went to top tier universities to get a degree and then found a job in the big companies. It seems they have more knowledge than me but just don't have the guts to trade. Is there any way to train a person to have more guts?
LBR speaks (in The New Market Wizards I believe) of one such trader she chose to teach who fit just such an academic and idealistic mold. Despite so many strengths this individual just couldn't pull the trigger on many of the trading strategies she taught him. Many variables go into the making of a successful trader and apparently intelligence and academic accomplishment are just a few of many attributes necessary to make a person successful in this business.
I think putting it street-kid versus phd-quant is quite meaningless. Of course lots of smart people get whipped around by the market, but so do lots of get-rich-quick street-kids never mind their attitude. Lots of guys with shiny degrees also make shitloads of money from salary+bonus+percentage compensation+trading their own account. All in all most of us here are only what they tend to call "liquidity prividers" to their operations, despite some high-profile crashes.
I'd rather say that versus the market we All start out Street Kids needing bringing up - of the sort academys will never provide. I'm a few months away from publishing my Phd in political history, but hours counted I have spent more time trading and researching strategies than on what I'm payed for. Taking hits and profits in the market learnt me more about myself than any professor ever will. Still decided to finish off my studies since the subject is interesting and a degree represents a social asset. There will always be naive people who tuck their shirt when they hear you got a phd.
Look at Soros, the man's got zillions, still he wants to be respected as a great philosopher of capitalism. Remember "The alchemy of finance"? Yeah he does all those macro trades but he also goes on about philosophical stuff, I mean who buys the book to know if billionaire George also happened to read Wittgenstein (or whoever it was) once.
I'd rather say that versus the market we All start out Street Kids needing bringing up - of the sort academys will never provide. I'm a few months away from publishing my Phd in political history, but hours counted I have spent more time trading and researching strategies than on what I'm payed for. Taking hits and profits in the market learnt me more about myself than any professor ever will. Still decided to finish off my studies since the subject is interesting and a degree represents a social asset. There will always be naive people who tuck their shirt when they hear you got a phd.
Look at Soros, the man's got zillions, still he wants to be respected as a great philosopher of capitalism. Remember "The alchemy of finance"? Yeah he does all those macro trades but he also goes on about philosophical stuff, I mean who buys the book to know if billionaire George also happened to read Wittgenstein (or whoever it was) once.
man this is SOOOOOOOOO true... i took a graduate level stock analysis class at a major university by a Harvard trained MBA who runs an investment fund. first day - actually first 5 minutes he asks: anyone who is not getting their asked kicked in the market raise their hand. One hand up, mine... he didnt see it right away, so he continued, then caught himself... then he saw my hand and started grilling me - my positions made perfect sense and i knew the companies... it wasnt luck... then the interesting part; he makes everyone say where they went to school.... all these friggin' MBAs from MAJOR schools. i went to a state university, except for a year in japan. when he heard my background he really didnt pay much attention to me the rest of the semester... he did tell how his dad was a doctor, how he failed at one try in college, then lived in this parents vacation home in a very exclusive area as he tried a second under-graduate degree... make no mistake, the guy was very smart and very well educated... he was a complete and utter spoiled asshole too.
the professor was in LOVE with WCOM... he called TA "voodoo." so one evening i put my daughter on my lap - she was 8 at the time (i think) - i said what do you think about this WCOM chart (daily)? the 20 MA has crossed down below the 50 MA, the orice appeared to have topped and was rolling over, blah, blah, blah. she said short that "baby." i agreed. BTW, wcom was near 55 at the time! i wonder how far that prick's ego let wcom fall before he admitted he was wrong, if he ever did.
so there you have it... i grew up in a 2Br/1Bth, $19,000 house (that wasnt much in california in even in the 1960's - single-mother mom had 4 mortgage to buy it too) and there i was in this class with all that brainpower - and i was the one MAKING money. that class was very good for me... i came out of that class thinking to myself, im better at this than these guys - i can beat them!
my daughter (11 yo now) trades with me and she is good, my son doesnt show as much interest, but he sees the set-ups... i suspect my son will take a while, but i really believe he has more natural trading skill than my daughter - she is just more tenacious and intense at this point. BTW, they are not growing up in a $19,000 house - daddy has made a "generational" leap!
Have you ever asked the question, what if you went to Harvard with those suckers? You would probably have done better than them; and I doubt that a degree from Harvard would diminish your ability in trading! All what I want to say is that, a degree in college wont hurt your trading success, it will rather help you mainly if you are using TA. I don't see how a street kid can learn TA and interpret them accurately!
Amomo.