PFG - What happens if you have accounts with them??
- Thread starter gmst
- Start date
Swan Noir,
Here is where I get the difference between segregated for US futures and secured for Foreign from:
http://www.futuresindustry.org/downloads/PCF-FAQs.PDF
Here is where I get the difference between segregated for US futures and secured for Foreign from:
http://www.futuresindustry.org/downloads/PCF-FAQs.PDF
Not pretty to say the least.
Yes, I originally got transfered to RJO but set up an account at PFG because I could fully intragrate into Trade Navigator by Genesis so I could trade right of the charting software, a feature which I love.
I honestly believed that the associations, regulators, auditors were tightening the screws down big time prevent this from happening, also to cover their butts. Who wouldn't have thought that every single "i" and "t" wasn't being crossed by the folks responsible for watching after they were exposed for sleeping at the switch with MF.
Need some time to digest this one, wow, man alive.
You are listening to THE INDUSTRY!!
Yes ... those seg funds are in the Customer Part 30 Account which is a more dangerous place to be. The secured nature of those funds that they speak to means that the funds of their clients are co-mingled in an account and are the security. The Empire State building or Rockefeller Center stand as security. The customer funds are the security. That is great if they are there and not so much if they are not.
At this latest fiasco I think most customers would sell their claim for fifty cents on the dollar right now -- today. I have no idea what the payout will be but i do know people who are close to the action that maintain most of the money is gone. The suicide attempt does not build much confidence.
The reason I say Part 30 Funds are more dangerous is because attorney fees on international disputes -- and that is what Lehman ended up being -- are attorney fees on steroids. Even if a good chunk is there once the legal comes off the top you are holding your dick in your right hand and $30 in your left. When right hand is done you can't even take yourself to a decent dinner.
Read what these charlatans want you to believe!!
Q -- Would an individually segregated account provide a customer any greater
protection at the FCM if the FCM becomes insolvent?
A -- Individually segregated accounts should protect customers against FCM fraud and
fellow customer risk. However, the Bankruptcy Code provides that non-defaulting
public customers of an FCM will share in any shortfall in customer segregated funds,
pro rata, and, consequently, under the existing segregation models, individually
segregated accounts would not appear to provide customers with greater protection if
the FCM were to fail.
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And then read this. They tell you how you will share in the pain!!! Where do they tell you where you will share in anything else/ You will, I believe, share as a general creditor standing in line behind the guys that have real security, real collateral.
If the loss is so great that, notwithstanding the application of the FCMâs own funds,
there is a shortfall in the amount of customer funds required to be held in segregation,
the FCM will default and likely be placed into bankruptcy. In these circumstances, the
Bankruptcy Code provides that non-defaulting customers will share in any shortfall, pro
rata. A shortfall in customer segregated funds may also make the transfer of the accounts
of non-defaulting customers to another FCM more difficult.
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They are telling you that if the FCM wants to stay in business and avoid bankruptcy they need to pay out the shortfall. The only problem with that is once the seg account is blown for any significant chunk of it everyone is running for cover. No commissions are generated, secured creditors are filling claims, the lawyers want retainers. So it ends up being a bankruptcy.
BTW ... the Part #0 Account relates to where the contracts are traded not your nationality. A US national can be screwed just like anyone else and a foreign client trading in the US gets into the standard seg screwing!!
COUNTER PARTY RISK COUNTS
Yes ... those seg funds are in the Customer Part 30 Account which is a more dangerous place to be. The secured nature of those funds that they speak to means that the funds of their clients are co-mingled in an account and are the security. The Empire State building or Rockefeller Center stand as security. The customer funds are the security. That is great if they are there and not so much if they are not.
At this latest fiasco I think most customers would sell their claim for fifty cents on the dollar right now -- today. I have no idea what the payout will be but i do know people who are close to the action that maintain most of the money is gone. The suicide attempt does not build much confidence.
The reason I say Part 30 Funds are more dangerous is because attorney fees on international disputes -- and that is what Lehman ended up being -- are attorney fees on steroids. Even if a good chunk is there once the legal comes off the top you are holding your dick in your right hand and $30 in your left. When right hand is done you can't even take yourself to a decent dinner.
Read what these charlatans want you to believe!!
Q -- Would an individually segregated account provide a customer any greater
protection at the FCM if the FCM becomes insolvent?
A -- Individually segregated accounts should protect customers against FCM fraud and
fellow customer risk. However, the Bankruptcy Code provides that non-defaulting
public customers of an FCM will share in any shortfall in customer segregated funds,
pro rata, and, consequently, under the existing segregation models, individually
segregated accounts would not appear to provide customers with greater protection if
the FCM were to fail.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then read this. They tell you how you will share in the pain!!! Where do they tell you where you will share in anything else/ You will, I believe, share as a general creditor standing in line behind the guys that have real security, real collateral.
If the loss is so great that, notwithstanding the application of the FCMâs own funds,
there is a shortfall in the amount of customer funds required to be held in segregation,
the FCM will default and likely be placed into bankruptcy. In these circumstances, the
Bankruptcy Code provides that non-defaulting customers will share in any shortfall, pro
rata. A shortfall in customer segregated funds may also make the transfer of the accounts
of non-defaulting customers to another FCM more difficult.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are telling you that if the FCM wants to stay in business and avoid bankruptcy they need to pay out the shortfall. The only problem with that is once the seg account is blown for any significant chunk of it everyone is running for cover. No commissions are generated, secured creditors are filling claims, the lawyers want retainers. So it ends up being a bankruptcy.
BTW ... the Part #0 Account relates to where the contracts are traded not your nationality. A US national can be screwed just like anyone else and a foreign client trading in the US gets into the standard seg screwing!!
COUNTER PARTY RISK COUNTS