Peterffy (IB) takes out ad in WSJ to warn against BTC futures

That makes sense. But then regulators need to enforce that.... only one exchange, no other ones... no cross-exchange trading. And that goes against the free-market thinking...

Also, what if one or two big banks have a short position on an independent exchange like that... and they end-up being squeezed short... will they cough up or not? You would hope so... but if others don't have to... why would they? So then there will be a two-tier system... not sure if that's going to work.

It's just a shit product to trade derivatives on. You can't easily trade the underlying.... too thin. Look at what happened in Zimbabwe on it's bitcoin exchange. Top was 13.000 I think... but hardly any volume. Even in western exchanges, Bitfinex/GDAX etc... they all have different prices due to the lack of arbitrage... costs are too high to do it properly.

I've been looking at BitMex's swaps trading... it's all over the place... but, it's transaction fees are lower than the underlying so initially it's more interesting to trade as day-trading compared to BTC spot. But, unregulated and again.. their risk is quite big IMO.
 
ok, you explain to me how a supposed universal panacea 'currency' can't be arbed if it trades at 6000 one place and 13,000 in another? fees? lol, right, that must be it.,
 
first they use it to avoid currency restriction imposed for good reason by govt's
or was the drug dealing first?

then they use it to bypass the sec and ipo rules and protections for investors

but its a GOOD THING
 
"The Bitcoin Exchange That CME Plans to Use for Futures Is Down"

Actually Funny

The Bitcoin Exchange That CME Plans to Use for Futures Is Down
By
Camila Russo
November 15, 2017, 10:20 AM CST Updated on November 15, 2017, 2:38 PM CST



Bitcoin: What’s Coming in the Year Ahead



Peter Thiel Is Silicon Valley's Walking Contradiction


Peter Thiel Is Silicon Valley's Walking Contradiction
Bitcoin: What’s Coming in the Year Ahead

This is exactly what the bitcoin futures naysayers have been warning about: One of the exchanges which CME Group Inc. would use to price the contracts is having serious issues.


Clients of San Francisco-based Kraken are seeing slow responses from the website, connection timeouts and delays in withdrawals, the cryptocurrency exchange said in a statement. "We are investigating these issues and working to resolve as quickly as possible," the statement said.


fifth-biggest exchange by bitcoin trading volume come just three days after Seoul-based Bithumb’s servers crashed as a sudden surge in usage caused a connection failure. The issues raise concerns about whether largely unregulated exchanges, without the safeguards of securities bourses, will be able to reliably provide prices for indexes tied to futures and exchange traded funds, and cope with higher trading volume that could come if institutional investors start buying cryptos.


The other crypto exchanges on which the CME plans to base its CME CF Bitcoin Real Time Index are Bitstamp, GDAX and itBit. All four exchanges contributing prices to CME’s BRR index submitted them on time Wednesday, including Kraken, CME spokeswoman Alexandra Rapoport said in an email.


“The strength of our index is that it is based on actual prices from multiple exchanges,” Rapoport wrote. “In the case of any one participating exchange experiencing a technical issue, our reference rate is designed to draw on pricing data from the multiple other exchanges that are part of the BRR.

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Interactive Brokers LLC took out a full-page add in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday to warn about the dangers of having bitcoin derivatives clear in the same organization as other products because, they argue, there’s no fundamental basis for valuating cryptocurrencies and there’s no mature, regulated underlying market.

Kraken clients lashed out on Twitter to complain about the problems in the exchange. Twitter user @craigwatson1987 posted "So @krakenfx is not allowing withdrawals, to add to a flaky platform where trades are hit-and-miss. Can’t move my BTC away quickly enough." Many others threatened legal action, with @thejoestore posting "everyone file for class action on Kraken!!!" and called for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate.

While bitcoin’s ability to skirt government and central bank controls is part of what makes it attractive to many, cryptocurrency traders and investors are now finding it might not be such a bad thing for regulators to get involved.

 
SoesWasBetter said:
ok, you explain to me how a supposed universal panacea 'currency' can't be arbed if it trades at 6000 one place and 13,000 in another? fees? lol, right, that must be it.,
More...

Are you asking me? How would I know? I don't trade bitcoin etc.

You could do an arb if you had funds deposited at every exchange... but arb between say GDAX and Bitfinex is also difficult since the aggregate fees are 0.5-1.5%. So nobody is doing that until there's that difference in price.

I wouldn't put any money in even a "regulated" bank or exchange in Zimbabwe, let alone an unregulated virtual exchange...

So that's not being arb'd I guess...
 
ajacobson said:
Many others threatened legal action, with @thejoestore posting "everyone file for class action on Kraken!!!" and called for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate.
More...

So it's alright to ask for regulation when it's not working... but they don't want regulation because it's safer to not have it... round-and-round-and-round-we-go... :D
 
Just throwing this out there for public consumption, but what would stop central banks from getting together and buying up all or most of BTC? There will only be 21 million total coins ever. I would not be surprised if they were not quietly bidding every day for some to acquire a majority stake. It's a drop in the bucket for them money wise and when they are done, they would in essence be able to control the supply. Nobody could stop them for it is a free market after all.
 
Maverick74 said:
Just throwing this out there for public consumption, but what would stop central banks from getting together and buying up all or most of BTC? There will only be 21 million total coins ever. I would not be surprised if they were not quietly bidding every day for some to acquire a majority stake. It's a drop in the bucket for them money wise and when they are done, they would in essence be able to control the supply. Nobody could stop them for it is a free market after all.
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Very simple, they all ready tried that with these and they now are stuck with a warehouse full and no customers for them
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Maverick74 said:
Just throwing this out there for public consumption, but what would stop central banks from getting together and buying up all or most of BTC? There will only be 21 million total coins ever. I would not be surprised if they were not quietly bidding every day for some to acquire a majority stake. It's a drop in the bucket for them money wise and when they are done, they would in essence be able to control the supply. Nobody could stop them for it is a free market after all.
More...

Because that limited supply argument of bitcoin community is invalid. There are over 1000 crypto coins.... they will just move on to create a bigger bubble in another one....

Programmers and marketers in crypto are printing virtual cash just as easy as it is digging at the beach for sand...
 
JackRab said:
Because that limited supply argument of bitcoin community is invalid. There are over 1000 crypto coins.... they will just move on to create a bigger bubble in another one....

Programmers and marketers in crypto are printing virtual cash just as easy as it is digging at the beach for sand...
More...

Well, yes and no. Think of each coin as a unique technology. BTC has it's own technology structure. Moving to another coin is like moving to another stock. Sure, it might be better or worse but the business model of AAPL is not the same as the business model for IBM. But yeah, they are both stocks. The Feds could basically buy up the BTC just to destroy it. At a bare minimum to control it and round and round we go....
 
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