"Permanent job loss" fallacy. There is no permanent job loss!

[ByLoSellHi]

This is a fantastic post.

From a content family in the post WWII era where just dad needed to work to have a stable, financial situation, and a safe, clean home, college is desired, etc., and real savings, to the two-family income beginning in the 80s, when Americans became voracious consumers and started running up huge debts on their credit cards and with HELOCs (especially in the 90s and 2000s), and now the government outspending even its debt-laden citizens.

Quote from jprad:

(2006)
"...there is still the myth that with the right education and training, the resourceful displaced worker can find a job as good as the one they had."

http://knowledge.emory.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1002

(1995)
"Clearly, financial pressures facing families have intensified in the past two decades. Many families are striving to achieve a comfortable standard of living by increasing weekly hours of work and by additional income from working wives. However, this effort is often hindered by declining earnings and nonwage compensation, in addition to increased housing costs. Real earnings declined 30 percent from the early 1970s to the late 1980s for those with a high school education or less and for all young families."

http://upjohninst.org/publications/newsletter/jk_595.pdf

(1997)
"We find evidence indicating that the average 1990`s two-earner family would prefer to receive the 1980`s real wage package (were it available) instead of the real wage package it actually faces."

http://ideas.repec.org/a/spr/jopoec/v10y1997i3p237-250.html

(2006)
"In sum, the American economy has been spending well beyond its means, borrowing more than $2 billion a day from abroad, an amount equivalent to more than 6 percent of the Gross Domestic Product. Yet even this level of borrowing has not been enough to prop up low- and middle-income families’ standard of living."

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=854

 

[ByLoSellHi]

Quote from Misthos:

One day soon we will arrive at the conclusion that many jobs are indeed worthless. They contribute very little and have only grown in size due to the asset value/debt based service sector economy (FIRE ECONOMY) grew along with fiat money. So yes, job losses will be permanent - at least for my lifetime - until the next monetary expansion/super debt cycle grows in another 50 years only to implode yet again 70-80 years hence.

Where's that union chick holding the 'stop'/'slow' sign, flipping it over every 5 minutes, making $22.17 per hour?

 

[jprad]

Quote from ByLoSellHi:

From a content family in the post WWII era where just dad needed to work to have a stable, financial situation, and a safe, clean home, college is desired, etc., and real savings, to the two-family income beginning in the 80s, when Americans became voracious consumers and started running up huge debts on their credit cards and with HELOCs (especially in the 90s and 2000s), and now the government outspending even its debt-laden citizens.

Precisely...

 

[trade4succes]

Quote from TraderZones:

Or it means that we bought things (our trade deficit) and the dollar went and stayed out of the US. It does not mean what you have said in any of your previous posts.

When a dollar is in the US, then there is a high multiplier effect. When it is out of the US, then it has none of that impact.

It should be obvious from everyone else they do not think you are well-versed in this subject. Giving your unsubstantiated opinion turns your arguments into sand.

You have proven nothing, and I do not plan to waste more time reading your responses on this subject, so you may speak into the breeze...

Thanks pal, I hope you are not one of those persons who believe that closing up the economy from import and giving people 4 day workweeks will solve unemployment and/or low wages.

 

[trade4succes]

Quote from jprad:

"In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation.1 Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1"

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

I guess you and me are the difference between factual and literal thinking, in contrast to logical, conceptual thought. There is more beyond those figures you copy pasted above. Like higher healthcare spending is a good thing ??? Yes, very productive all these doctors patching up burnt out bodies. If you are talking long term/permanent of course, not short term.

 

[trade4succes]

And since many of you guys love to make arguments based on empirical evidence (edit, before my words get used against me, i meant statistics/figures, not "empirical evidence"): Make a correlation chart of the economies that are more open to imports, and those that are against it. Remember North Korea, hermit state?

 

[trade4succes]

Quote from trade4succes:

I guess you and me are the difference between factual and literal thinking, in contrast to logical, conceptual thought. There is more beyond those figures you copy pasted above. Like higher healthcare spending is a good thing ??? Yes, very productive all these doctors patching up burnt out bodies. If you are talking long term/permanent of course, not short term.

In a strict factual literal sense, yes, the doctors are productive, they produce healing services. what i want to say is that, wouldn´t it be nicer if those doctors would be able to do something else? if the people who are now paying for the healing services, would be healthier to begin with, and would be paying for other services to these doctors? maybe different kinds, more pleasant kinds of healing (to stay in the industry)?

This is what I mean by the difference between literal thinking, not making any connections, and thinking and making some steps ahead in your thoughts. But well, according to you the people won´t have money to pay for more pleasant kind of services from those people who are now diabetics/cancer doctors. I rest my case.

 

[jprad]

Quote from trade4succes:

I guess you and me are the difference between factual and literal thinking, in contrast to logical, conceptual thought. There is more beyond those figures you copy pasted above. Like higher healthcare spending is a good thing ??? Yes, very productive all these doctors patching up burnt out bodies. If you are talking long term/permanent of course, not short term.

It took you a day and this is the best you can come back with; a non-sequitur?

Conceptualize this -- you're a moronic twit...

 

[trade4succes]

Quote from jprad:

It took you a day and this is the best you can come back with; a non-sequitur?

Conceptualize this -- you're a moronic twit...

Only thing I can say is: You are not being very nice here. Get out of my way.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from trade4succes:

Thanks pal, I hope you are not one of those persons who believe that closing up the economy from import and giving people 4 day workweeks will solve unemployment and/or low wages.

The simple fact is, that imports and exports are entirely unrelated in an open society.

People and places like Wal-Mart are going to import from the places with the best price-supplier combination. No amount of legislation can do much in an open society.

About the only thing the govt can do, is tariffs and similar legislation.

Practical exporting depends on being seen as a quality, low-cost, reliable source.