"Permanent job loss" fallacy. There is no permanent job loss!

Quote from 426653478:

america hasn't seen a technological breakthrough for at least the last 10 years, and it never will

almost everything else it has developed so far has been reversed engineered by other countries at a fraction of the cost, and recreated

So, tell us who's the competition when it comes to Nimitz class aircraft carriers, F-117s, B-2Bs, boomers, fast attacks, JSF?

How about those two robots that are still trekking around Mars the past 5 years, which is just a tad longer than their 3 month design life?

Repaired a 19 year old space telescope 4 times? Not to mention the shuttle that got them there and back...

Microsoft Windows/Office/Exchange/etc.? Java? Oracle?

Avastin, Viagra, HPV vaccine, Shingles vaccine, mapping the entire human genome?

The Segway, Roomba, 3-D printing/modeling systems, the Boeing 787 (world's first composite airliner).

Yeah, we suck...
 
Quote from jprad:

So, tell us who's the competition when it comes to Nimitz class aircraft carriers, F-117s, B-2Bs, boomers, fast attacks, JSF?

How about those two robots that are still trekking around Mars the past 5 years, which is just a tad longer than their 3 month design life?

Repaired a 19 year old space telescope 4 times? Not to mention the shuttle that got them there and back...

Microsoft Windows/Office/Exchange/etc.? Java? Oracle?

Avastin, Viagra, HPV vaccine, Shingles vaccine, mapping the entire human genome?

The Segway, Roomba, 3-D printing/modeling systems, the Boeing 787 (world's first composite airliner).

Yeah, we suck...

This 426653478 charachter is just a jealous brit who is posting for attention's sake.

Just another in a long line of ET losers who desperately need to create attention on an anonymous internet forum because in real life, they have no prospects for success or attention whatsoever.
 
Quote from jprad:

So, tell us who's the competition when it comes to Nimitz class aircraft carriers, F-117s, B-2Bs, boomers, fast attacks, JSF?

How about those two robots that are still trekking around Mars the past 5 years, which is just a tad longer than their 3 month design life?

Repaired a 19 year old space telescope 4 times? Not to mention the shuttle that got them there and back...

Microsoft Windows/Office/Exchange/etc.? Java? Oracle?

Avastin, Viagra, HPV vaccine, Shingles vaccine, mapping the entire human genome?

The Segway, Roomba, 3-D printing/modeling systems, the Boeing 787 (world's first composite airliner).

Yeah, we suck...

it costs billions of dollars to engineer things like that, but maybe millions to reverse engineer
 
Quote from clacy:

This 426653478 charachter is just a jealous brit who is posting for attention's sake.

Just another in a long line of ET losers who desperately need to create attention on an anonymous internet forum because in real life, they have no prospects for success or attention whatsoever.

ya I'm an attention whore like most americans
 
Quote from jprad:

So, tell us who's the competition when it comes to Nimitz class aircraft carriers, F-117s, B-2Bs, boomers, fast attacks, JSF?

How about those two robots that are still trekking around Mars the past 5 years, which is just a tad longer than their 3 month design life?

Repaired a 19 year old space telescope 4 times? Not to mention the shuttle that got them there and back...

Microsoft Windows/Office/Exchange/etc.? Java? Oracle?

Avastin, Viagra, HPV vaccine, Shingles vaccine, mapping the entire human genome?

The Segway, Roomba, 3-D printing/modeling systems, the Boeing 787 (world's first composite airliner).

Yeah, we suck...

Yeah, but all of that work is done by mostly foreigners who come here to grad school. American kids do not want to do real work, period.

Whites are arguably the dominant ethnic/racial group in the US, but white college kids are a minority in math, science, and engineering. Furthermore, most people have a mental picture of a white person when "American" is used. However, the "Americans" behind everything you listed are usually brown or yellow, with a sprinkling of Eastern Europeans and some home-grown American Jews.

At some point, those people won't bother to innovate on US soil for US companies.
 
Quote from 426653478:

it costs billions of dollars to engineer things like that, but maybe millions to reverse engineer

If it's so easy and cheap then answer my question, who's our competition for any of those technologies?
 
Quote from lolatency:

Yeah, but all of that work is done by mostly foreigners who come here to grad school. American kids do not want to do real work, period.

I'd love to see the response you'd get if you told one the 3,000+ families of American kids that have died in Iraq and Afghanistan that their kids were too lazy to do "real work..."

Furthermore, most people have a mental picture of a white person when "American" is used.

Maybe most foreigners would. But, Native Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Spanish-Americans, Hindu-Americans and Arab-Americans would disagree with you.

However, the "Americans" behind everything you listed are usually brown or yellow, with a sprinkling of Eastern Europeans and some home-grown American Jews.

At some point, those people won't bother to innovate on US soil for US companies.

Trust me, you ain't working on government/military technology projects unless you've been a citizen for quite a while.
 
Quote from lolatency:

Yeah, but all of that work is done by mostly foreigners who come here to grad school. American kids do not want to do real work, period.

Whites are arguably the dominant ethnic/racial group in the US, but white college kids are a minority in math, science, and engineering. Furthermore, most people have a mental picture of a white person when "American" is used. However, the "Americans" behind everything you listed are usually brown or yellow, with a sprinkling of Eastern Europeans and some home-grown American Jews.


In so far that there is a grain of truth here, It is because American Unversities are some of the biggest abusers of the H1B visa program, which allows them to hire post Doc foreign students as teaching assistants for 17K a year.
The Universities take terrible advantage of the H1Bs, save money and pat themselves on the back for diversity.
But often though they may be highly skilled researchers, the language skills of the TAs were/are often so poor that they can provide effective assistance only to undergraduates from their own country.

Years ago I had to prove that my statement of a series of orbital eigenvalues was equivalent to the one the east Asian contingent came up with because they had solved for the energy levels as a group speaking a language that I did not understand, and I being unable to follow the conversation, had come up with a different but (I proved) equivalent set of equations.

Occasionally we would get lucky and get an American TA, and when we did they were good. Brilliant in fact.
 
Quote from trade4succes:

Many people here seem to fear some kind of scenario where unemployment will have to rise permanently in the West.

Couple of years ago it offshoring was the culprit, now the recession.

Both offshoring and the recession have nothing to do with rising permanent unemployment I will argue here.

The current recession related rising unemployment is because of the boom and bust cycle. The boom was debt related. We consumed too much ahead, so now we have to catch up through a bust (bust means: *temporary* higher unemployment) to get to real consumption levels based on reality.

Offshoring: Let me explain by using a hypothetical scenario.


Imagine a hypothetical closed economy, with a thriving auto industry, employing 5% of workers.

Now suddenly, high quality cars start falling out of the sky permanently and of course, the car industry cannot compete with that, so they go bankrupt. 5% of workers are unemployed now.

Do the 95% who kept their jobs start working less, because they get their cars for free now? No they won´t. Why not? Well, for example because of "the keeping up with the Joneses" effect. The money these 95% of workers save on not having to buy cars, will be used on other consumption goods, to keep up with the Joneses. They are not going to work less.

If these 95% of workers will spend their money on other goods, for example going out to eat at restaurants more often, that´s where the 5% of laid off workers will find new jobs: in restaurants.

The only reason why there would be higher permanent employment, could be through government related actions, like higher handouts for the unemployed (why would you go to work for $900 per month, if you get $1,000 for free from the government), or introducing rules making it more difficult (and therefore costing more time) for laid off people to get new jobs (job protection laws, or difficulty opening new businesses).


I challenge anyone to prick holes in this theory, but I bet it´s impossible ;-)

Lets see if I can prick a hole in that theory. Ok so 5% suddenly become unemployed. That means these 5% are no longer spending money. So its safe to reason that whatever business's these 5% spent their money on, will no longer be getting that money, so that means that those business's lose 5% of their income to which they then cut 5% of their work force or lower wages 5%. Now yes...we all have free cars now, but there is no extra money. Tell me where that extra money is coming from? I drive a full paid for honda. If tommorrow ferraris were dropping out of the sky, I just have a nicer looking car. I didnt make anything extra...my paycheck is still the same. (well actually im about to get a 5% paycut because all those autoworkers just got unemployed so business is going down) So i have a new car and less money. Now if i can only spend 95% of what i used to spend, and everyone else is the same, there is ANOTHER 5% drop in GDP and you can see how it actually snowballs if there is no new job growth anywhere.

Now i know what you are saying...I have a fully paid for car and alot of people finance cars so they wont be making those monthly payments anymore and they can use that money to buy other things.

How? If a guy is making payments and cars suddenly drop out of the sky, he is still making payments on that car. He might have 3 or 4 more years of payments to make before he finally has that extra cash. I mean unless he decides to just let the bank take his car back which will then proceed to sue him for the balance of whatever they auction it off for and since cars are free now, they wont be able to auction it off, so now the guy is sued and has a judgement against him and the court is docking his paycheck (which is already 5% less than what he used to earn) so he is hurting even more. Not to mention that if the banks decided not to come after him, it would be devastating for them to take so many loses and then the bank would cut jobs making it even worse!


Also the banks would be taking a hit anyway because they are not making any new loans for cars since they dropped out of the sky, so the banks finance department has to cut those jobs so theres another 5% out on the streets.


Did i shoot enough holes in your impossible to beat theory yet or do you want some more? :P
 
Quote from trade4succes:

*All* the money that gets sent to China from the US for imports is in US$. Foreigners in the end can only spend US$ in the... US!

Nice theory, but untrue. As the world's reserve currency, US $ can be used within other countries to pay within that or within other countries
 
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