Just for clarification purposes and in connection with my prior post, are you guys suggesting that tape reading can effectively be used to trade the indexes? I see that you are predominantly referring to stocks in your posts. The reason I ask is that the "tape" moves so quickly in ES that I personally cannot imagine being able to analyze it coherently for this market. Please advise.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
People like that steve tvardek. Where did you learn DAYtrading??
- Thread starter Completenewbee
- Start date
Quote from Thunderdog:
Just for clarification purposes and in connection with my prior post, are you guys suggesting that tape reading can effectively be used to trade the indexes? I see that you are predominantly referring to stocks in your posts. The reason I ask is that the "tape" moves so quickly in ES that I personally cannot imagine being able to analyze it coherently for this market. Please advise.
Although many people here will argue with me, the only tape that can be read in my opinion is the specialist on NYSE listed stocks. I could read those guys so well I could tell you what they had for breakfast and I could tell you the exact time they went on lunch break and their clerks were running the books.
skepticaltrader
Guest
Quote from Maverick74:
Vehn, I will tell you exactly what I use to tell guys that I trained in NY and what my mentor told me. Pick one stock in the news between $25 and $50 (listed only). Trade it every day. At the end of the day, stay after work for about 4 hours and review all your trades. Pull up the time and sales and review every single print. Look at all your trades, why you did them, why they made or lost money.
Then go back again and see where you should have bought and sold. Don't look at the chart, you don't need it. Just look at the tape. See if you can find the buyers and the sellers. Then the next day come in early. Read every single news headline. Pick your stock for the day, after awhile you will have 2, 6, 10, 15 stocks.
Repeat the same process. Stay late, go over the time and sales. Every single print. You will not have any friends. You will not have a life. You will be very very bored. But you will learn to read the tape. And you will make money. Every guy in our group went through this. Most guys were not that commited and it showed on their P&L.
Like I said, I feel this post is a wasted effort because no one will do this. Oh sure, you'll do it for a day, maybe a week. But for 6 months? I doubt it. You'll look for something easier. Some technical indicator or whatever and you'll give up. It's a lot of hard work and I can't emphasize the word boring enough. But you will learn to trade.
Some hints. Focus on stocks that do 500k to a million shares a day. Don't trade expensive stocks. Don't trade the sexy stocks, the ones everyone trades. Be smart and find related stocks, rather then the stock that had the news. Watch the sp 500 futures all day every tick with your stocks. There you have it.
Hi Maverick74,
Will your technique of watching the T & S of stocks work with Index Futures too? Seems like you can use it on most everything except the Forex market.
Thanks
Quote from Maverick74:
...
what he said, be really really familiar with stock/index you want to daytrade, see it in is various time frame 1,2,3,4,5m 55,110,330tick, 150,300,450v, find something that will keep repeating day after day, some pattern, some set up that keep happening, keep document it until you are certain that it will do what you already know it will do, etc..etc..
Quote from Thunderdog:
Just for clarification purposes and in connection with my prior post, are you guys suggesting that tape reading can effectively be used to trade the indexes? I see that you are predominantly referring to stocks in your posts. The reason I ask is that the "tape" moves so quickly in ES that I personally cannot imagine being able to analyze it coherently for this market. Please advise.
TR (tape reading) most accurately applies to stock trading,
to a lesser degree it also applies to just about any volume based transaction equation.
One can watch pattern flow or traffic patterns or commuters at one of the busiest transfer points and derive the same conclusions as one would in watching a stock.
HOWEVER, when dealing with basket stocks, then the pattern analysis does not apply as well and as accurately as with the individual entity or equity.
For example, take the subways of NYC. At one of the busiest stations the flood of people getting off the train in the morning varies with waves of arriving trains. Those trains are the baskets of stocks that your example applies to, hence you would need to watch train traffic from a controllers position instead of watching people in wave patterns as they exit trains. I hope you understand the illustration.
I watch a variation of T&S on index futures using www.marketdelta.com I use MP, and I watch for flashers on the DOM (fake bids and offers compared to actual T&S). I have never had an osccilator/indicator or any moving average on my index futures chart. I did use indicators when I was trading stocks, but I dont plan on going back to that as my current trading is much more consistent.
IMHO, be wary of advice from people who post prolifically during market hours beacuse if they were really good they wouldn't bother with ET while working. 2) Be wary of posters who get hot headed and/or overly emotionally in their posts because succesful traders are typically not defensive.
IMHO, be wary of advice from people who post prolifically during market hours beacuse if they were really good they wouldn't bother with ET while working. 2) Be wary of posters who get hot headed and/or overly emotionally in their posts because succesful traders are typically not defensive.
Quote from Maverick74:
I understand there are a many ways to sheer sheep, I'm asking you if you are happy. I always felt scalping for pennies is akin to prostitution. A trader whore if you will. LOL. I mean if you are honestly happy trading this way and you make money, hats off to you. There is no wrong way to trade if you are profitable. I am just questioning the sanity of it.
A guy that makes rebound scores isn't as worthy as one who makes 3 pointers?
Sure, it may not be as impressive....but ONLY the TOTAL SCORE wins the game.
I hear what your sayin', though, Mav--trading for .01 and/or rebate, is a bit extreme...but it does give them some experience to start.
Hmmmm....."happy". There are trade offs with all types of trades.
Nothin' like knockin' down $3/sh on 10kSH in a day, but all trades have various intensity. Scalping, I'd say, has the highest burnout factor & highest concentrated intensity--even if it's likely a lower risk profile.
Quote from xxxskier:
..........
IMHO, be wary of advice from people who post prolifically during market hours beacuse if they were really good they wouldn't bother with ET while working. 2) Be wary of posters who get hot headed and/or overly emotionally in their posts because succesful traders are typically not defensive.
I really hope zillions of people see this, especially item 2.
Thanks, xxxskier.