Peloton - really people?

[tango29]

tesla real issue is competition. BMW and Audi are coming out with great cars. Tesla has insane valuations that most probably will come down to earth.

I agree, not to mention Tesla has consistent quality control issues. At some point even the fan club has to get a bit tired of the b.s.. At the same time I wouldn't take a trade against it, you never know how long the fantasy will continue. The competition should cut into sales, especially with lower price points.
Personally I hope at some point we come to a realization that the current version of electric vehicle just isn't the answer and we find a better alternative. Unfortunately, the likelihood is small as the politicos are going all in on what is there now and not looking for a long term best solution.
It reminds me of how little progress we have made with the internal combustion engine over the course of it's history.

 

[terr]

Personally I hope at some point we come to a realization that the current version of electric vehicle just isn't the answer and we find a better alternative.

Like? Do you mean some other kind of personal vehicle or are you hoping for some kind of mass transport solution?

There has been lots of work done on the batteries for personal vehicles, and not much progress away from the lithium. And for mass transport solution to work, you will need a mass psychological change in population (as well as demographic/geographic change to concentrate people more).

 

[tango29]

I admit I am one who is not a fan of mass transportation, but I do get it as at least a partial solution.
I am hoping there is a better solution than lithium, but the money is going for lithium as the solution. There are some trying other things, but they aren't getting anywhere near the funding.
I actually think a better midterm solution is the hybrid option. The youngest has a hybrid Corolla and regularly is at 53mpg. Roughly 50% better than our all gas one we have. Toyota is committing to their Sienna van as a hybrid and it gets about the same a 50% increase. 50% across the board is a pretty big leap and reduces emissions and our dependence on oil to a certain extent.
Why jump on all electric and the whole redo of our infrastructure that is needed to actually support it when the hybrid option is valid. A reason I could see for the all electric is maybe it pushes our infrastructure upgrade that is badly needed now, but the two are really independent of each other.

 

[terr]

The youngest has a hybrid Corolla and regularly is at 53mpg. Roughly 50% better than our all gas one we have. Toyota is committing to their Sienna van as a hybrid and it gets about the same a 50% increase.

Hybrid is definitely a good interim solution and its market share is growing.

I recently got a hybrid Rav4. At first I only got 34-35 out of it instead of the promised 40. Now am getting 40-42. But here is the interesting thing - you have to drive a certain way to get that 40, and the car brainwashes you to do that. Little things. Constant display of your floating MPG. Giving you a score 0 to 100 at the end of your drive and a report of how good a boy your were and where you could improve. The constant display of how much your engine is assisting your battery. And I realize they are brainwashing me, kinda resent that, and still do it.

 

[RedDuke]

I agree, not to mention Tesla has consistent quality control issues. At some point even the fan club has to get a bit tired of the b.s.. At the same time I wouldn't take a trade against it, you never know how long the fantasy will continue. The competition should cut into sales, especially with lower price points.
Personally I hope at some point we come to a realization that the current version of electric vehicle just isn't the answer and we find a better alternative. Unfortunately, the likelihood is small as the politicos are going all in on what is there now and not looking for a long term best solution.
It reminds me of how little progress we have made with the internal combustion engine over the course of it's history.

Abso fu..n lutely. No way I am shorting this thing. Cult is strong

 

[Overnight]

...But here is the interesting thing - you have to drive a certain way to get that 40, and the car brainwashes you to do that. Little things. Constant display of your floating MPG...

Yup. I actually love the brainwashing thing.

I last had a hybrid in 2008-2010 on a lease, the Honda Civic hybrid. Gas was ~$3.50ish per gallon back then, and it sucked.

The car got 42ish MPG factory? But I loved to push the limits of that, see how I could do better, so it forced me to adjust how to drive the car by watching the MPG gauge. It had this funky feature where if you got to a certain speed at a certain angle on a downhill, the electric motor AND the gas engine would turn off completely, and you were getting infinite MPG. On a regular basis I was able to finesse the car to 50 MPG.

My God I LOVED that.

 

[VicBee]

I agree, not to mention Tesla has consistent quality control issues. At some point even the fan club has to get a bit tired of the b.s.. At the same time I wouldn't take a trade against it, you never know how long the fantasy will continue. The competition should cut into sales, especially with lower price points.
Personally I hope at some point we come to a realization that the current version of electric vehicle just isn't the answer and we find a better alternative. Unfortunately, the likelihood is small as the politicos are going all in on what is there now and not looking for a long term best solution.
It reminds me of how little progress we have made with the internal combustion engine over the course of it's history.

Lol... And another one... If I got a buck every time I heard those points I'd be a millionaire by now.
We got a few in here with the nearly identical reasoning, and I'm sure you believe you're your own independent thinking person. Many, of course, come from industries negatively affected by the evolution to ev. Heck, if you make your money from the greater oil and gaz industries, I get the uneasiness. For others -often related- it's a political argument. This party wants this, so my party doesn't.
You're probably right. Who wants to own a car that catches on fire anyway? How'bout them sudden braking issues... Just not ready, right?

"A recent study conducted by AutoInsuranceEZ using data from the US National Transportation Safety Board showed that electric cars in the US caught fire at a rate of 25.1 per 100,000 sales, versus 1,530 for ICE vehicles and 3,475 for hybrids.4 Feb 2022"

"Ford is recalling more than 39,000 SUVs after 16 under-the-hood fires, the company said. The recall covers certain 2021 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator vehicles in the United States that were built between December 2020 and April 2021.20 May 2022"

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/mercedes-benz-recalls-292000-us-vehicles-over-braking-issue-2022-05-12/

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/22/ferrari-to-recall-more-than-2000-cars-in-china-over-braking-issues.html

 

[The_Krakenite]

In the second world war, German tanks used diesel to prevent fires upon impact. The western allies were late to adapt and used gasoline for their tanks. Hence the term flaming-coffins soon became a meme.

Hey, it's a solution...

 

[KCalhoun]

Evs suck. And to the tree huggers, until China India Africa South America etc all switch to evs, which will never happen, rich Americans driving evs will have no significant impact on global warming.

Evs are for yuppies thinking they're making a difference - left wing delusional cause.

Plus, discarded ev batteries leaking into water tables from landfills is a Lot more toxic than gas cars. But sshhh they don't want to talk about ev battery toxicity

 

[VicBee]

Evs suck. And to the tree huggers, until China India Africa South America etc all switch to evs, which will never happen, rich Americans driving evs will have no significant impact on global warming.

Evs are for yuppies thinking they're making a difference - left wing delusional cause.

Plus, discarded ev batteries leaking into water tables from landfills is a Lot more toxic than gas cars. But sshhh they don't want to talk about ev battery toxicity

Why do you have to repeat nonsense Ken?
I'm definitely not a tree hugger but believe in ev. So there.

There's no such thing as discarded ev batteries leaking anywhere. Batteries are expensive enough that entire reverse supply chains are fully operational today and batteries are either dismantled for parts or recycled into new batteries.

China is far ahead the US or Europe when it comes to ev replacing ice vehicle. Believe the Chinese government when they set deadlines!
Europe will be ev dominant before the end of this decade and full ev by 2035.
Yes, the US will be lagging all developed nations in ev adoption. Americans don't like to be told what to do, the economy was built around car manufacturing and oil to fuel them and their influence is great, so politicians have seized on the subject to create a divide that simply doesn't exist elsewhere in the world. Adoption will vary greatly by state, but even red states like AZ and TX may surprise us all as high ev adoption states because people will quickly see the cost savings with sun, storage and car charging. Beside, I'm sure someone must have graphed the repercussion of a 10% ev adoption on the price of gas, elimination of gas stations, etc.. At some point most Americans will see for themselves that the burden of living free in a gas guzzler isn't worth it.