Big guys get creamed daytrading too. Big guys lose bigger when they lose, that's all. They lose millions
PDT rules have destroyed me.
- Thread starter qdz
- Start date
Me, too. These sorts of complaints have been going on at least since the turn of the century, and probably since auction markets first went into business.
The issue is not the complaints themselves. Everybody feels like indulging in a wallow every now and then. But whozis complaints have been unending. He apparently has no interest in learning how to adapt to the situation. His sole concern is to rationalize his failure so that he doesn't have to assume any responsibility for it.
--Db
If you only have $25,000, then YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY. To succeed, you need a years living expenses plus trading capital that at least equals how much you want to make per year, and a very strict stop loss discipline. Even then the odds are you will fail as a pure stock daytrader. Trading is tougher than you think it is. The average worker makes money, the average trader LOSES money. It has always been that way except for brief periods in history like the late 1920's and the late 1990's.
People don't want to believe it, their emotions are taking over. It is the gamblers mentality and it is a common weakness that takes effort to overcome. No, don't feed me the crap about prop firms either, there is a whole forum dedicated to that.
If you don't have enough money, then there is still emini's and now SSF's. You can trade 100 shrs of stock for a while to develop your skills then take that money and trade futures. But still be prepared to lose it all. Don't waste your time and energy blaming the PDT rule. I have tried a lot of stuff, but have settled on being a swing trader with stocks, at least until the SSF's pick up volume. If you can't afford to do that then you need to get a second job or something, because YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY. Face up to it, its not a crime or a mark against your character or intelligence, it is just a cold hard fact. To be a capitalist you need to have capital.
People don't want to believe it, their emotions are taking over. It is the gamblers mentality and it is a common weakness that takes effort to overcome. No, don't feed me the crap about prop firms either, there is a whole forum dedicated to that.
If you don't have enough money, then there is still emini's and now SSF's. You can trade 100 shrs of stock for a while to develop your skills then take that money and trade futures. But still be prepared to lose it all. Don't waste your time and energy blaming the PDT rule. I have tried a lot of stuff, but have settled on being a swing trader with stocks, at least until the SSF's pick up volume. If you can't afford to do that then you need to get a second job or something, because YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY. Face up to it, its not a crime or a mark against your character or intelligence, it is just a cold hard fact. To be a capitalist you need to have capital.
The PDT rules make it nearly impossible to use a stop-loss discipline.
As everything seems to be on autopilot today, I'll throw in another 2 cents.
I'll agree with dotslash to a certain extent. I don't know where the number 25K came from, but if it bothers you, you definitely don't have enough money, or the patience to build up your capital to get there.
Let's say that a trader manages to average $.50 per day. He would have to do 1000 shares to pull out $500/trading day. Assuming that s/he loves going on vacation where there is no access to market information giving him/her only 200 trading days, that's still $100K a year. As of yesterday, there are only 18 stocks in the NDX trading above $40 (& another 350 in the SPX). That's a whoppin' 432 to choose from in just those 2 indicies. Buying a 1K shares of a $40 = $40K / 4:1 margin (I think that's what it is). = $10,000. Please feel free to adjust these numbers to your lifestyle, expectancy, and/or how little you think you should need to open an account.
Anyway, the point is that you could do with much less. But who cares? If you are really dedicated to trading, play by whatever rules are out there and pretty soon you wont have to be complaining about a silly little rule like PDT.
I'll agree with dotslash to a certain extent. I don't know where the number 25K came from, but if it bothers you, you definitely don't have enough money, or the patience to build up your capital to get there.
Let's say that a trader manages to average $.50 per day. He would have to do 1000 shares to pull out $500/trading day. Assuming that s/he loves going on vacation where there is no access to market information giving him/her only 200 trading days, that's still $100K a year. As of yesterday, there are only 18 stocks in the NDX trading above $40 (& another 350 in the SPX). That's a whoppin' 432 to choose from in just those 2 indicies. Buying a 1K shares of a $40 = $40K / 4:1 margin (I think that's what it is). = $10,000. Please feel free to adjust these numbers to your lifestyle, expectancy, and/or how little you think you should need to open an account.
Anyway, the point is that you could do with much less. But who cares? If you are really dedicated to trading, play by whatever rules are out there and pretty soon you wont have to be complaining about a silly little rule like PDT.
You don't get 4:1 margin if you have under $25,000.
"Silly little rule" is putting it nicely. I've said it often before, but I will say it once again: As long as this "silly little rule" is allowed to slide without objection, there will be more and bigger rules put in place before you know it. Many people who are unaffected by the PDT rule at this time will find themselves hampered by new and larger restrictions. They will raise the threshold from $25,000; they will put PDT restrictions on futures.
Many more of you will be affected then. We'll hear how loud your wails and moans become when it's your turn to have your trading methods paralyzed by arbitrary restrictions.
"Silly little rule" is putting it nicely. I've said it often before, but I will say it once again: As long as this "silly little rule" is allowed to slide without objection, there will be more and bigger rules put in place before you know it. Many people who are unaffected by the PDT rule at this time will find themselves hampered by new and larger restrictions. They will raise the threshold from $25,000; they will put PDT restrictions on futures.
Many more of you will be affected then. We'll hear how loud your wails and moans become when it's your turn to have your trading methods paralyzed by arbitrary restrictions.