It's not necessarily true that employers are dictating the wage structure. Our company hired many skilled and semiskilled workers over the years, and we knew that if we offered too little that we would not get what we wanted. The labor market, at every level, told US what we had to pay, not the other way around.
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Paying Your Employees So Little That Most Of Them Are Poor?
- Thread starter nutmeg
- Start date
Quote from RainMann:
It's not necessarily true that employers are dictating the wage structure. Our company hired many skilled and semiskilled workers over the years, and we knew that if we offered too little that we would not get what we wanted. The labor market, at every level, told US what we had to pay, not the other way around.
Bingo. Look at your W-2 (over the course of a few years). That will paint a pretty good picture of what you're actually worth in the labor market.
If you're a high income earner, it's most likely due to the fact that you bring a lot of value to the market place. If you're average income, you are an average employee. If you're poverty level, it's because you lack value in today's economy.
That doesn't mean that you'll always earn what you've earned in recent history. Some workers may be continuing their education, or gaining valuable experience that they can bring to the market at a later date, but may not figured out a way to capitalize on it yet.
It hurts to hear the truth sometimes.
Guys no poor person should invest in securities to earn $600 per year. The $12 per week is too little to make a difference ... it IS TOO SLOW! And it leaves her star players on the sidelines ... her, her time and her energy. She should buy something/anything that allows her to open a tiny business she can grow through evening and weekend sweat. A used truck and offer cut rate moving prices on hours she does not work or buy a small wholesale inventory of some products and see to her friends, relatives and neighbors use all the time. Items that are heavy and/or bulky (kitty litter or soap powder three lots or more per delivery) so they will not only appreciate a decent price but her free delivery will have at least some value. I'm not really suggesting these specific businesses but I am suggesting a business model that is simple and capitalizes sweat not mad business skills, The skills takes time and if she acquires them she can move up the ladder.
She should shoot for a modest sum. Not so that she can work less but so she recognizes that even $60 or $80 a week of incremental disposable income that she opts to save and invest in her small venture or a new venture is a real start. Alternatively she can take a bookkeeping course (or another skill that translates into a small business) and call on every new business that opens within a 20 mile radious. Lists are available by zip of new business formations. Again even small income becomes a start. Taking $12 a week in passive income is crazy when she can probably take five or even ten times that.
In the 1989 I tested a business concept using hypnosis to help people quit smoking. I tried some test advertising -- $600 -- and, when I saw I could cover the cost of marketing even not knowing a thing about that specific business I assumed it was probably a good business. Except for trading I have used that as a standard for every business I have ever opened. If I cover my marketing costs (or even only come close to cover -- 75% is enough) when I am ignorant about the market it tells me it is easy to enter and to start making some money in just a few months as I learn. That is rare and when you find it in a scaleable business you REALLY have something. I backed up the original $600 with ten thousand more, got that experience, turned the corner and started making four to five thousand a month. Then I pressed the bet with another 20 G's, got an open line of credit from an ad agency (without a personal guarantee) and two years later had an ad budget of over $200,000 a month and the three hypnotists I trained were hypnotizing, on average 2,500 clients per week with the biggest crowd (655 asses in chairs) at Lantanas, a catering hall, in a suburb South of Boston. My all-in investment was $30,600 and my early risk was $600.
I had a great deal of prior business success and wrote all my own ad copy. I'm not suggesting the waitress can parlay her bet on that scale but I am suggesting she needs to find a bet that makes sense and allows her to earn money through working harder. Most of the advice the poor get is less than worthless. When we talk about the poor and when we talk to the poor we should think a bit about where they are at and what it takes for them to get out. I agree most will not even try but for the few that do, a bit of guidance from someone who has had a few more advantages in life can make the difference. If you get the chance give them that bit of time. It helps the Karma!!!
Also, never listen to a broker. Simply a bad habit to get into.
She should shoot for a modest sum. Not so that she can work less but so she recognizes that even $60 or $80 a week of incremental disposable income that she opts to save and invest in her small venture or a new venture is a real start. Alternatively she can take a bookkeeping course (or another skill that translates into a small business) and call on every new business that opens within a 20 mile radious. Lists are available by zip of new business formations. Again even small income becomes a start. Taking $12 a week in passive income is crazy when she can probably take five or even ten times that.
In the 1989 I tested a business concept using hypnosis to help people quit smoking. I tried some test advertising -- $600 -- and, when I saw I could cover the cost of marketing even not knowing a thing about that specific business I assumed it was probably a good business. Except for trading I have used that as a standard for every business I have ever opened. If I cover my marketing costs (or even only come close to cover -- 75% is enough) when I am ignorant about the market it tells me it is easy to enter and to start making some money in just a few months as I learn. That is rare and when you find it in a scaleable business you REALLY have something. I backed up the original $600 with ten thousand more, got that experience, turned the corner and started making four to five thousand a month. Then I pressed the bet with another 20 G's, got an open line of credit from an ad agency (without a personal guarantee) and two years later had an ad budget of over $200,000 a month and the three hypnotists I trained were hypnotizing, on average 2,500 clients per week with the biggest crowd (655 asses in chairs) at Lantanas, a catering hall, in a suburb South of Boston. My all-in investment was $30,600 and my early risk was $600.
I had a great deal of prior business success and wrote all my own ad copy. I'm not suggesting the waitress can parlay her bet on that scale but I am suggesting she needs to find a bet that makes sense and allows her to earn money through working harder. Most of the advice the poor get is less than worthless. When we talk about the poor and when we talk to the poor we should think a bit about where they are at and what it takes for them to get out. I agree most will not even try but for the few that do, a bit of guidance from someone who has had a few more advantages in life can make the difference. If you get the chance give them that bit of time. It helps the Karma!!!
Also, never listen to a broker. Simply a bad habit to get into.
Quote from Mayhem:
Nah, you can't beat mother nature... Humans can't escape the Darwinian reality that we have genetic variety in our human population. Genetic variety functions to preserve the species and to pass forward the genes most "fit" for our environment. There will always he winners and losers whether we are talking about tuna, gorillas, or humans.
In the case we are discussing, this woman had a windfall of $8000 left to her by her mother. This woman has children. She asked for advice from a broker, and she got sound advice to invest it. She felt a return of $600 per annum was too low, so she spent it on a Chevy Blazer (a very quickly depreciating asset both in value and personal utility). Could we all make better decisions for this dolt? Sure, but the price of freedom is that we let idiots live their lives and make their own mistakes... the world needs ditch diggers and middle-aged moms who fluff up the salad bar at Ruby Tuesdays too.
well, lets see, that was in 1988, so all things being equal, now she would be about 58 and she at least would have a nest egg. I don't know how much 8k in 1988 would be worth now. I always estimated conservatively at 6 or 7 per cent, but we did a hell of a lot better than that in just MSFT which through most of the 90's was a core holding and always 50% in the S&P.Quote from Swan Noir:
Guys no poor person should invest in securities to earn $600 per year. The $12 per week is too little to make a difference ... it IS TOO SLOW! And it leaves her star player on the sidelines ... her, her time and her energy. She should buy something/anything that allows her to open a tiny business she can grow through evening and weekend sweat. A used truck and offer cut rate moving prices on hours she does not work or a small inventory wholesale of some products her friends, relatives and neighbors use all the time that is heavy and/or bulky (kitty litter or soap powder three lots or more per delivery) so they will not only appreciate a decent price but delivery will have at least some value. I'm not really suggesting these specific businesses but I am suggesting a business model that is simple and capitalizes sweat not mad business skills... the skill takes time and if she acquires them she can move up the ladder.
She should shoot for a modest sum. Not so that she can work less but so she recognizes that even $60 or $80 a week of incremental disposable income that she opts to save and invest in her small venture or a new venture is a real start. Alternatively she can take a bookkeeping course (or another skill that translates into a small business) and call on every new business that opens. Lists are available by zip of new business formations. Again even small income becomes a start. Taking $12 a week in passive income is crazy when she can probably take five times that.
In the 90's I tested a business concept using hypnosis to help people quit smoking. I tried some test advertising -- $600 -- and, when I saw I could cover the cost of marketing even not knowing a thing about that specific business, I assumed it was probably a good business. Except for trading I have used that as a standard for every business I have ever opened. If I cover my marketing costs (or even only come close to cover -- 75% is enough) when I am ignorant the about the market it tells me it easy to enter and make some money in just a few months as I learn. That is rare and when you find it in a scaleable business you REALLY have something. I backed up the original $600 with ten thousand more, got that experience, turned the corner and started making four to five thousand a month. Then I pressed the bet with another 20 G's, got an open line of credit from an ad agency (without a personal guarantee) and two years later had an ad budget of over $200,000 a month and with three hypnotists I trained was hypnotizing, on average 2,500 clients per week with the biggest crowd (655 asses in chairs) at Lantanas, a catering hall, in a suburb South of Boston. My all-in investment was $30,600 and my early risk was $600.
I had a great deal of prior business success and wrote all my own ad copy. I'm not suggesting the waitress can parlay her bet on that scale but I am suggesting she needs to find a bet that makes sense and allows her to earn money through working harder. Most of the advice the poor get is less than worthless. When we talk about the poor and when we talk to the poor we should think a bit about where they are at and what it takes to get out.
Also, never listen to a broker. Simply a bad habit to get into.
Once the kids are grown the expenses finally start stabalizing and may even go down.
She wasn't going to start a business, and I was not going to bet it for her, just a conservative investment approach, an IRA, and maybe add a little when times are not hard.
Quote from Swan Noir:
Guys no poor person should invest in securities to earn $600 per year. The $12 per week is too little to make a difference ... it IS TOO SLOW! And it leaves her star player on the sidelines ... her, her time and her energy. She should buy something/anything that allows her to open a tiny business she can grow through evening and weekend sweat. A used truck and offer cut rate moving prices on hours she does not work or a small inventory wholesale of some products her friends, relatives and neighbors use all the time that is heavy and/or bulky (kitty litter or soap powder three lots or more per delivery) so they will not only appreciate a decent price but delivery will have at least some value. I'm not really suggesting these specific businesses but I am suggesting a business model that is simple and capitalizes sweat not mad business skills... the skill takes time and if she acquires them she can move up the ladder.
She should shoot for a modest sum. Not so that she can work less but so she recognizes that even $60 or $80 a week of incremental disposable income that she opts to save and invest in her small venture or a new venture is a real start. Alternatively she can take a bookkeeping course (or another skill that translates into a small business) and call on every new business that opens. Lists are available by zip of new business formations. Again even small income becomes a start. Taking $12 a week in passive income is crazy when she can probably take five times that.
In the 90's I tested a business concept using hypnosis to help people quit smoking. I tried some test advertising -- $600 -- and, when I saw I could cover the cost of marketing even not knowing a thing about that specific business, I assumed it was probably a good business. Except for trading I have used that as a standard for every business I have ever opened. If I cover my marketing costs (or even only come close to cover -- 75% is enough) when I am ignorant the about the market it tells me it easy to enter and make some money in just a few months as I learn. That is rare and when you find it in a scaleable business you REALLY have something. I backed up the original $600 with ten thousand more, got that experience, turned the corner and started making four to five thousand a month. Then I pressed the bet with another 20 G's, got an open line of credit from an ad agency (without a personal guarantee) and two years later had an ad budget of over $200,000 a month and with three hypnotists I trained was hypnotizing, on average 2,500 clients per week with the biggest crowd (655 asses in chairs) at Lantanas, a catering hall, in a suburb South of Boston. My all-in investment was $30,600 and my early risk was $600.
I had a great deal of prior business success and wrote all my own ad copy. I'm not suggesting the waitress can parlay her bet on that scale but I am suggesting she needs to find a bet that makes sense and allows her to earn money through working harder. Most of the advice the poor get is less than worthless. When we talk about the poor and when we talk to the poor we should think a bit about where they are at and what it takes to get out.
Also, never listen to a broker. Simply a bad habit to get into.
The vast majority of poor people aren't capable of running a small or side business. Not everyone is entrepreneurial by nature. For many, it would be better to invest the $8,000 and contribute a small amount of their weekly earnings. Even if they are only able to save a few hundred dollars/year, they can indeed grow a nest egg by small, periodic investments.
Quote from clacy:
Bingo. Look at your W-2 (over the course of a few years). That will paint a pretty good picture of what you're actually worth in the labor market.
If you're a high income earner, it's most likely due to the fact that you bring a lot of value to the market place. If you're average income, you are an average employee. If you're poverty level, it's because you lack value in today's economy.
That doesn't mean that you'll always earn what you've earned in recent history. Some workers may be continuing their education, or gaining valuable experience that they can bring to the market at a later date, but may not figured out a way to capitalize on it yet.
It hurts to hear the truth sometimes.
Might be over simplified. I know a lot of smart creative people who are not interested in money. I know some of them in fact have an aversion to focusing on money-making. It seems a lot of people deliberately choose careers and paths that they know are not financially rewarding.
the first month you spend less than you make, you are on your way to being rich. So getting back to opie's post, it has always been difficult to make more than you spend, but there is concern today that it is even more difficult than it was in the past. Especially, when a man has an honest job working for walmart or starbucks, yet he can't afford to support a stay at home mom and a couple of kids.Quote from clacy:
The vast majority of poor people aren't capable of running a small or side business. Not everyone is entrepreneurial by nature. For many, it would be better to invest the $8,000 and contribute a small amount of their weekly earnings. Even if they are only able to save a few hundred dollars/year, they can indeed grow a nest egg by small, periodic investments.
In the old days, a man with a job could support a wife and kids.
Now it takes two incomes just to make ends meet.
If things keep going the way they are going, pretty soon
It will take a village to raise a child
The few well run micro-lenders have proved that many more people than we had previously imagined can run VERY simple small business particularly if the focus on a market that starts with friend, family and neighbors.
She has a nest egg. I'm talking about kitty litter or soap powder or something basic. If the poor do not stretch they will be buried. They are unlikely to make it investing in securities. One stint of 60 days unemployed will cause them to liquidate. They need to aim higher.
She has a nest egg. I'm talking about kitty litter or soap powder or something basic. If the poor do not stretch they will be buried. They are unlikely to make it investing in securities. One stint of 60 days unemployed will cause them to liquidate. They need to aim higher.
Quote from clacy:
The vast majority of poor people aren't capable of running a small or side business. Not everyone is entrepreneurial by nature. For many, it would be better to invest the $8,000 and contribute a small amount of their weekly earnings. Even if they are only able to save a few hundred dollars/year, they can indeed grow a nest egg by small, periodic investments.
Maybe if the guberment didn't take 64% of corporate earnings, you could pay more!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=237247
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=237247
Quote from Swan Noir:
She has a nest egg. I'm talking about kitty litter or soap powder or something basic. If the poor do not stretch they will be buried. They are unlikely to make it investing in securities. One stint of 60 days unemployed will cause them to liquidate. They need to aim higher.
You sure you don't work for Amway? I had a cousin who kept trying to sell me detergent. Finally he gave up on the "entrepreneurial" life, and now he's moderately successful in sales for some IT consulting firm... good for him because he didn't have chops to sell detergent to friends and family, but he does seem to be decent at selling Storage Area Network systems to corporations... go figure.
Look, the lady in question had three choices: (1) invest it, (2) buy a 1988 Chevy Blazer, or (3) buy kitty litter to sell to her friends. She made the dumbest choice. Yeah, maybe she would have become the Famous Amos of kitty litter, but I doubt it. If she had put it under her mattress, she would have $8000 today... which is better than the memories of the new car smell from that crappy Chevy Blazer back in 1988.