Paying for a mentor vs. Elite Trader Forum

[Iwilldoit]

I just started mentoring with Vlad from http://www.jltrader.com/mentoring/ (I've been a follower of his website for some time). Let's see how it goes.

@Al_Bundy

what is his "method" is it price action based? or looking at patterns? or market profile?

I read the articles on his blog, and they are very generic....no charts of his previous trades etc...

 

[Al_Bundy]

@Al_Bundy

what is his "method" is it price action based? or looking at patterns? or market profile?

I read the articles on his blog, and they are very generic....no charts of his previous trades etc...

There are several posts with charts where the rationale behind entries and exits is explained. He's a discretionary trader who combines classical charts patterns with price action (not the usual simplistic stuff aka here's a pin bar, buy buy buy ) and elements of trend following.

 

[k p]

There are several posts with charts where the rationale behind entries and exits is explained. He's a discretionary trader who combines classical charts patterns with price action (not the usual simplistic stuff aka here's a pin bar, buy buy buy ) and elements of trend following.

In my opinion, the simple stuff I think works almost just as well. Perhaps the win rate won't be as high as someone who considers more data and has refined their trade entry criteria, but it still will be good enough. Of course the way to make the simple stuff work though is to know when, where and how to enter, where to place your stop, and when to exit.

I can tell you as a newbie how easy it is to be trading in the right direction and still lose money, and how you can also have more wins than losses and still lose money. Furthermore, as a newbie, its easy to see how you know that what you are doing is wrong, and yet, its incredibly difficult to do the right thing.

So in essence, the mentor will sometimes just help you put your head on straight, and although that might seem simple, lots of experts say that trading isn't all that difficult in terms of complexity, just difficult in terms of execution.

 

[Money Trust]

you sure?

I've done it.

 

[Leo Chu]

When I first started down this path, I spent a lot of time reading posts, trying to figure out who the real deal is and all that jazz. I've built a list of member who I would trust, but even then, I'm not exactly sure how they would specifically help me since each of them just offer snippets.

Part of the problem also is that a trading method has to match the individual personality, and if you don't even know yet what kind of trader you want to be (or what kind of trader you can be given your own set of fears, etc.), then how would you even know where to start to look for a mentor?

The mentor you seek, who is confident and profitable, simply doesn't need to train anyone how to trade. If I told you that I make 2-3k per day, would I care to collect $100 from you for just an hour on the phone? What would I get out of it? That hour would be more precious to me and my personal time would be more valuable than your $100.

Now there are members here who make this amount of money, and when they do share, they are genuinely doing it to give back, and in some ways, altruism is something you do for yourself anyway. But the problem is that they are only giving you little snippets of what it takes to be profitable day after day. Also, there is so much lost when you are just exchanging emails or forum posts. What you would really like is to be able to talk, one on one, and even better, to be able to discuss things live, during the trading session. This once again puts extra strain on the trader who is trying to make his 2-3k per day, but without this type of personalized hands-on approach, whatever help you get from a mentor after the trading session is over is very limited in my opinion. It would be like a surgeon learning how to do open heart surgery without his teacher being right there beside him making sure he doesn't cut the wrong blood vessels.

So in my opinion, its almost impossible to find what you seek. Perhaps if it was a family member, this would negate the issues I outline, but I just do not see any way that a highly successful trader would take on a mentorship role and help you enough, day in and day out, to teach you how to trade.

I've read so many posts on ET, and just about everything is contradictory, even if both traders each make money. Some may be experts in trading breakouts, others stay clear of them since so many breakouts fail. The difference of course is all in the details, so you have to find someone to spell out these minute details for you, and stick around with you long enough for these subtleties to get ingrained into you. Its simply too much work for a stranger online, and if someone offers to do this for you for a fee, I would run because I am sure they make more from their teaching than they do from their trading.

I have read here on ET where some members have been in chat sessions or skype sessions that they found extremely helpful, and some have been able to talk one on one, but I think many of these people are gone now, and even then, it probably wasn't hands on enough to qualify as mentorship.

I am influenced by your words. We cannot get any help if we don't know what we need. The best mentor would always be yourself. But it doesn't mean we cannot get help and useful advice from others. For me, it's the best to listen to many others and then select out what is really useful for us.

 

[k p]

For me, it's the best to listen to many others and then select out what is really useful for us.

I think this is a good initial strategy when you have no idea what you want to do. Its hard to know that something doesn't work when you don't really know what does. But evaluating what is useful, especially when only getting bits and pieces is sometimes more confusing.

Look at it like this. I would never buy an initial breakout... these things fail all the time. But then just the other day I read NoDoji say that her mentors showed her how in an uptrending market, buying new highs works, even though I think the general public is sometimes warned to not buy new highs. I'm of course taking all of this out of context, and a breakout trade isn't exactly the same as buying a new high, since an up trending market isn't really in a range and hence a breakout, but it is at least a break of something, be it the break of a range high, or the break of a previous high.

Anyway, my point is that trying to pick something useful from so many suggestions, when all the useful bits are just bits, not backed up by the help of a mentor showing you how to use them is kind of like just figuring out what kind of indicator you want to use. The choice might not matter so much as on their own, they are all pretty much useless.

Now granted, most people who end up being successful have had to make it work without probably much outside help, but of all the traders that I've read about here who have shared their stories and appear to be highly proficient now, every single one of them has said how they used to lose for years, and lose tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[Leo Chu]

I think this is a good initial strategy when you have no idea what you want to do. Its hard to know that something doesn't work when you don't really know what does. But evaluating what is useful, especially when only getting bits and pieces is sometimes more confusing.

Look at it like this. I would never buy an initial breakout... these things fail all the time. But then just the other day I read NoDoji say that her mentors showed her how in an uptrending market, buying new highs works, even though I think the general public is sometimes warned to not buy new highs. I'm of course taking all of this out of context, and a breakout trade isn't exactly the same as buying a new high, since an up trending market isn't really in a range and hence a breakout, but it is at least a break of something, be it the break of a range high, or the break of a previous high.

Anyway, my point is that trying to pick something useful from so many suggestions, when all the useful bits are just bits, not backed up by the help of a mentor showing you how to use them is kind of like just figuring out what kind of indicator you want to use. The choice might not matter so much as on their own, they are all pretty much useless.

Now granted, most people who end up being successful have had to make it work without probably much outside help, but of all the traders that I've read about here who have shared their stories and appear to be highly proficient now, every single one of them has said how they used to lose for years, and lose tens of thousands of dollars.

Yep u r right that it's difficult to figure out what is really useful. However, personally, I would prefer to follow an experienced and profitable trader that I know, rather than listening to some so-called mentors who I have never met with

 

[k p]

Yep u r right that it's difficult to figure out what is really useful. However, personally, I would prefer to follow an experienced and profitable trader that I know, rather than listening to some so-called mentors who I have never met with

Ha.. couldn't agree more! And that is where the difficulty starts. The best traders are very quiet and have no need to help anyone. Yes they sometimes visit forums, but its mostly out of boredom, or perhaps to converse with other high level traders, but you hardly know who they are and have very little access to them. Unless you live in NY or Chicago perhaps, where there should be lots in person and you might bump into one (how would you never know who they are mind you unless you hang around outside of the CME building... LOL), or maybe even Florida, since lots of successful traders seem to love the nice weather and easy life, meeting one in person is highly rare.

So you're back to the original problem. Those that make themselves visible you gotta be careful about. Those who advertise and have a website you have to be even more careful about. Any type of business that is set up as a mentorship you have to wonder if they make more money from helping others rather than trading themselves, which really shouldn't be as any mentoring income should be peanuts compared to trading income.

I'm not complaining about it.... just saying how it is.