Hi Robert, I do try to do this as a business, here's three of my trades from Friday. I had some asshole ringing my phone off the hook telling me I needed to contact him while I was trying to unload my Apple Contracts, when Apple fell to $107 I was using Market Orders to buy the $108s-$110s, it had looked like the Buy Back was in full session. That asshole who kept calling me screwed up part of my $109s, I knew it was going to $110.75 (Hit $111.01) and I left $30,000 on the table because of some stupid family emergency! A trader can make money even paying $12.50 with Trac, do you remember them? They let me buy 250,000 and collect $.0029 as my ECN Rebate! I made more money on ECN Rebates that eventually taught me to make my trades longer than seconds, I was using a fractional t3 connection paying over $500 a month, actually my brokerage paid my internet fees. These two trades are not counting my boxed position on my AGN $280 October 2 Calls, even when AGN went to $288.77 I had a STC for 65 contracts @ $8.00 AON order that did not get filled. I called my Brokerage and told them to exercise my Options and I wanted a MOC Short Sell. That's going to screw up my Buying Power until they fix it on Monday. One thing is I really need to treat this as a business, where else can you make this kind of money? We Traders that do things from home do not get the respect we deserve, I am tired of being called "a Gambler", "Pension Robber", "Huckster" ect... I don't know how much your clients make, I think I did pretty good by making $8 points on 6600 AGN shares, I did help my friend by loaning him money to buy the AGN January $260 Calls for $17.00, I had to pay $17.40 for mine, we both spent around $175k each buying those Calls, what are your traders making?
Paying $5 plus $.10 per Option Contract Saved me $480 on 1 Trade!
- Thread starter RabidTrader
- Start date
I really like you, I have bugged my friend to put at least $500k with your firm, do you have access to the Futures and Canadian Stocks? He's got money, has issues paying the platform fees, I realize their not free, believe me I have tried to get him to join you but he's one of those cheap people that hate paying fees.
If someone like him puts in $2-$5 Million I think you can charge him extra on stock trade fees (to compensate paying data fees?) he is one of those guys who hates paying for data subscriptions! He devotes about 4 hours a day because he runs one of the biggest home building businesses in Santa Barbara County, he builds custom homes for the rich people in Montecido, California
If someone like him puts in $2-$5 Million I think you can charge him extra on stock trade fees (to compensate paying data fees?) he is one of those guys who hates paying for data subscriptions! He devotes about 4 hours a day because he runs one of the biggest home building businesses in Santa Barbara County, he builds custom homes for the rich people in Montecido, California
rmorse
Sponsor
I would have to speak to your friend directly, if the account would be for him. Yes we offer futures though FC Stone. Canadian Stocks, I'm not sure. I never asked.
Hi Robert, I still won't post that Broker's name out of my own stupidity, people need to realize "you get what you pay for", and they can get some very good Clearing Firms like "Apex" that do a great job without screwing people over.
I wrote the post about the Clearing House because I thought it was wrong that a Trader if they were to have $1 million in cash and $500k in Options and Stocks they bought at very good prices, they must sell out all their positions before that Clearing House sends you $.01!
Did you ever figure out how a Clearing Firm can force a person to sell all their positions, liquidate all kinds of great LEAPs and Stocks they bought on Tuesday September 28 and Monday August 24th.
Imagine having to sell our ETE shares bought at $18.80+, our AGN,BMY,MYL,ETE,ETP,LABU,XBI, ENDP,PLAY. Back in August I bought as much of the Calls in a space I've written about for months, the Storage Space. Almost all the Open Interest in SSS 90 contracts is mine, the EXR $70 and March $75s I got pretty cheap and CUBE the Feb $25 Calls plus that nasty little dog FIZZ, I've traded that nasty pig since $17 and those options are hard to get out of with any decency. That's what I warn people of Clearing Houses that could hurt them, not once has Apex or C-Cor or the Big Online Brokerages made me "Close your Account", sell all positions to get $.01 of my cash!
I wrote the post about the Clearing House because I thought it was wrong that a Trader if they were to have $1 million in cash and $500k in Options and Stocks they bought at very good prices, they must sell out all their positions before that Clearing House sends you $.01!
Did you ever figure out how a Clearing Firm can force a person to sell all their positions, liquidate all kinds of great LEAPs and Stocks they bought on Tuesday September 28 and Monday August 24th.
Imagine having to sell our ETE shares bought at $18.80+, our AGN,BMY,MYL,ETE,ETP,LABU,XBI, ENDP,PLAY. Back in August I bought as much of the Calls in a space I've written about for months, the Storage Space. Almost all the Open Interest in SSS 90 contracts is mine, the EXR $70 and March $75s I got pretty cheap and CUBE the Feb $25 Calls plus that nasty little dog FIZZ, I've traded that nasty pig since $17 and those options are hard to get out of with any decency. That's what I warn people of Clearing Houses that could hurt them, not once has Apex or C-Cor or the Big Online Brokerages made me "Close your Account", sell all positions to get $.01 of my cash!
The open interest on FIZZ, EXR, SSS is not very big and FIZZ I have been carrying that stock after rolling up the Options from $17 back to $20 to $22.50 to $25 to $30.00. It's funny I've held on to FIZZ so long, I think the Storage Space and stocks like FIZZ will protect our investors on ELITE, none of them are scary stocks, that's why I feel safe to post them.
I don't recommend the traders on Elite that are newbies chase stocks like AGN or VRX when they can buy stocks like ETE, FIZZ, CUBE, EXR, LNCE, JJSF, CASY, ALJ, NTI, SJM and NKE, even little Pep Boys looks good for a safe place to park. Thank's Robert, I hope people appreciate your expertise, we are lucky to have someone who knows both Trading and the other side of the equation, you are a expert in both and I appreciate all you do. I highly recommend that people use our local Brokerages because you understand what its like to Day Trade like they do, so many Brokers have never traded, all they do is sell!
I don't recommend the traders on Elite that are newbies chase stocks like AGN or VRX when they can buy stocks like ETE, FIZZ, CUBE, EXR, LNCE, JJSF, CASY, ALJ, NTI, SJM and NKE, even little Pep Boys looks good for a safe place to park. Thank's Robert, I hope people appreciate your expertise, we are lucky to have someone who knows both Trading and the other side of the equation, you are a expert in both and I appreciate all you do. I highly recommend that people use our local Brokerages because you understand what its like to Day Trade like they do, so many Brokers have never traded, all they do is sell!
Hi Robert, one more question that I've seen asked on so many forums that I think people are getting lied to or someone is totally misleading them. Mr. Robert Green CPA is not afraid of telling new traders the truth, he is one of the very best, if not the expert of Day Traders in the United States. Mr. Green wrote back in 2003 or 2004 in "Active Trader" Magazine saying that the bulk of "At Home Day Traders" a large percentage of them don't make above $62,500 and my recollection of his number might be a tad bit too high. He might have wrote it was $48,000 if memory serves me right, to be safe I want to post this a bit high.
There are people on forums talking about the average "at-home Day Trader" is making above $150k+. That seem's far too high, using Mr. Green's professional investigation among other reports I've seen, I think people are getting lied to. Mr. Green is a very conservative and well liked author and tax professional, far superior than Ted Tesser, in my opinion Mr. Green is Number 1 and I believe his statistics.
In your experience dealing with good size worth clients and possibly in other firms you have experience with, did you see the same situation when people are trading with $100k and below, have things changed since Mr. Green wrote that article? Have Day Traders been impacted by the HFTS Gang? I got a strange email from a former hedge fund guy who badgered me to return to him, he asked me if "I was lost without his guidance?"
The problem is he never came up with any decent ideas, I generated my own by looking at the volume lists, the news, stock radars picking up anything strange among all the stocks I follow. He had to fire a couple of his guys after they broke "risk management rules" recently, I always stayed in or far below the allowable equity plus he complained I was not using it all and yet I did outperform those other guys he fired!
Have you read any concrete proof that new day traders have finally broken above the $62,500 mark Mr. Green C.P.A. wrote about? Thank's for all your advice and great posting, its good people like you that make Elite great!
There are people on forums talking about the average "at-home Day Trader" is making above $150k+. That seem's far too high, using Mr. Green's professional investigation among other reports I've seen, I think people are getting lied to. Mr. Green is a very conservative and well liked author and tax professional, far superior than Ted Tesser, in my opinion Mr. Green is Number 1 and I believe his statistics.
In your experience dealing with good size worth clients and possibly in other firms you have experience with, did you see the same situation when people are trading with $100k and below, have things changed since Mr. Green wrote that article? Have Day Traders been impacted by the HFTS Gang? I got a strange email from a former hedge fund guy who badgered me to return to him, he asked me if "I was lost without his guidance?"
The problem is he never came up with any decent ideas, I generated my own by looking at the volume lists, the news, stock radars picking up anything strange among all the stocks I follow. He had to fire a couple of his guys after they broke "risk management rules" recently, I always stayed in or far below the allowable equity plus he complained I was not using it all and yet I did outperform those other guys he fired!
Have you read any concrete proof that new day traders have finally broken above the $62,500 mark Mr. Green C.P.A. wrote about? Thank's for all your advice and great posting, its good people like you that make Elite great!
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rmorse
Sponsor
RabidTrader,
No I don't have any statistics on "at home" traders. I don't believe that just because someone has more AUM, that it makes them better. I do believe that younger minds see fresh opportunities more often but do better when mentored or monitored by a more experienced trader to keep them focused and respect risk.
The key is to not go into business under funded. It means you can never make mistakes. We all make them. Large accounts get to make more mistakes and live another day, unless of course it was a large mistake!
Bob
No I don't have any statistics on "at home" traders. I don't believe that just because someone has more AUM, that it makes them better. I do believe that younger minds see fresh opportunities more often but do better when mentored or monitored by a more experienced trader to keep them focused and respect risk.
The key is to not go into business under funded. It means you can never make mistakes. We all make them. Large accounts get to make more mistakes and live another day, unless of course it was a large mistake!
Bob
RT, from what I am reading, to me, it appears that the type of trading you and your friend are doing carries high risk, as stocks do not offer the same protection as indices do - a stock can go to zero overnight (Murphy's Law) whereas an index will never go to zero.
If i had access to the type of funding you are mentioning, then I would look to act like the casino, as opposed to playing in the casino.
If someone is well off. and do not need money for everday living expenses, then IMHO they are very very foolish to take on high risk for high reward, as, since there is no need, why even bother!
I know more always wants more, and I can tell u of 2 cases where well off people ended up six foot under, 1 back in 2007 when he gambled the family business on CFD,s - he was found dangling at the end of a rope in a new warehouse he could not pay for - the 2nd only this week, 42 years of age with wife and 2 kids left behind - his misfortune was property related.
My point is, if there are markets available that can allow u operate like the casino, why would any1 in their right mind risk their hard earned money playing the casino - it does not make sense!
You speak of friends - some years ago a friend showed me how to sell puts on the FTSE 100, and told me that if you do it correctly, you can not lose, now that is one big statement to make as everyone knows that there is no reward without risk!
What happened - i made 75 wiining trades in a row, small size compared to what you are talking about, but made 21k sterling without losing a penny!
I then said, next month I will make 10K instead of last months return of 5K, so I nearly doubled my normal exposure. This was near end Jul 2007 - then, along comes the dreaded black swan, and me, the fool who did not know what he was doing, panicked, as all I could think of was FTSE falling 400 points tomorrow and me losing 100k or more!
Next day I rang my broker, and he actually said to me, as I will never forget, "you are probably better off". I closed everything for a 17k loss.
Of course, what he should have told me, was that all your trades are protected, and all you have to do is adjust your positions until the market makes a rebound, and you will be fine.
The next few days saw the FTSE bounce and I would have got back 1Ok if I had waited, without any adjustments.
Point is - my friend was not lieing, fir, if you do it correctly you can not lose, as an Index will never go to zero, but you need deep pockets uf you trade large size, and you must adjust to keep in line with market movements - he actually showed someone with lots of money how to do it, and as far as I know, he is still at it.
If you have enough money, do not play the casino, become the casino!
J_S
TY JS, I've thought of moving towards the Indices now after years of option trading, thank's for the extra boost, that's why the Markets are never boring to us. We always find new ideas, new ways, methods and models to try to move forward a few steps forward.
Before 9-11-2001 I was closing out all positions overnight, after that nasty dreadful day(after a week of the Market Closed) I changed my methods again! To reduce risk I focused on the ETFs mimicking the Exchanges after seeing so many stocks implode. The (QQQQ) (SPY), (SMH), (DIA) offered less risk plus plenty of money and I reduced my size dramatically.
Now I think its time to be lowering your size during these Markets is what we must do or we will blow up! If I may impart one piece of advice, that's it until we see things are getting better. Good Luck Next Week!
Before 9-11-2001 I was closing out all positions overnight, after that nasty dreadful day(after a week of the Market Closed) I changed my methods again! To reduce risk I focused on the ETFs mimicking the Exchanges after seeing so many stocks implode. The (QQQQ) (SPY), (SMH), (DIA) offered less risk plus plenty of money and I reduced my size dramatically.
Now I think its time to be lowering your size during these Markets is what we must do or we will blow up! If I may impart one piece of advice, that's it until we see things are getting better. Good Luck Next Week!