Paul Krugman Tells it like it is

[OPTIONAL777]

Are people running to the banks to withdraw cash and close their accounts, i.e. a bank run?

If not, then the plan to keep people from doing so is working.

If C goes under soon, would that begin a devastating bank run?

I don't need to know Obama's plan. I am giving the guy and his people, including advisers like Buffett and Volker the benefit of the doubt.

Obama was elected to govern, and so far the banking system has not collapsed...though it could have easily happened if there was a fearful stampede by the herd to withdraw their money from the banks.

Man, you really have to do something about your Obama derangement syndrome...less than 2 months in office and you are peeing your pants in demanding "where is the plan, where is the plan."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/5/9339/08980/888/704920

Sadly, people go so dumbed down and manipulated by the Bush fear machine that they just can't believe we now have a president who is trying to govern by reducing fear...and inspiring hope.

Quote from NeoRio1:

How you do not see the conflict among your answer is beyond me.

If controlling the fear of the public and stopping a run on the banks is job number one then why hasn't Obama and his team provided the banks and the country with a banking plan?

If his plan is to create zombie banks for years and possibly decades putting chains around the tax payer then just say it. Obama is too idealist, populist and spineless to accept the opportunity cost of anything.

You can speak in "what if's" and "maybe's" all day long but when you yourself don't even know what Obama's plan is considering your complete lack of any substance in defense of Obama there is a problem.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

"Yes I certainly suffer from Obama derangement syndrome..."

Okay, we agree that you have a mental illness that prevents you from rational discourse.

Seek some professional help, and then we can have a reasonable non all cap discussion...

Quote from NeoRio1:

Yes I certainly suffer from Obama derangement syndrome considering he has been in office over a month and has not delievery A FUCKING BANKING PLAN YET YOU FUCKING IDIOT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE YOU SHITBAG.

Plus Obama is trying to instill as much fear as possible.

A banking plan correlates with hope you fat alcoholic bastard.

 

[NeoRio1]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

"Yes I certainly suffer from Obama derangement syndrome..."

Okay, we agree that you have a mental illness that prevents you from rational discourse.

Seek some professional help, and then we can have a reasonable non all cap discussion...

You may love putting words in people's mouths in order to think you won some type of debate but the bottom line is that your president Obama has no idea what to do about the economy.

I predicted in January that more than half the country will dissaprove Obama's actions in 5 months and he is well on his way.

Obama is an intern.

Look at him talk without a telepromter for 5 minutes and you can tell he has no experience.

You can tell he has no personal insight.

You can tell he has no knowledge.

He is an idiot.

He has no economic experience at all.

He has no idea what he is doing.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Looks like you are calming down a bit...

Look, if you are right, as a trader you will be able to take major advantage of the future in the markets.

If you are just a fearful child, then it will take time to grow up...

Quote from NeoRio1:

You may love putting words in people's mouths in order to think you won some type of debate but the bottom line is that your president Obama has no idea what to do about the economy.

I predicted in January that more than half the country will dissaprove Obama's actions in 5 months and he is well on his way.

Obama is an intern.

Look at him talk without a telepromter for 5 minutes and you can tell he has no experience.

You can tell he has no personal insight.

You can tell he has no knowledge.

He is an idiot.

He has no economic experience at all.

He has no idea what he is doing.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

'Run on UK' sees foreign investors pull $1 trillion out of the City

Banking crisis undermines Britain's reputation as a safe place to hold funds

By Sean O'Grady, Economics correspondent

Saturday, 7 March 2009

A silent $1 trillion "Run on Britain" by foreign investors was revealed yesterday in the latest statistical releases from the Bank of England. The external liabilities of banks operating in the UK – that is monies held in the UK on behalf of foreign investors – fell by $1 trillion (£700bn) between the spring and the end of 2008, representing a huge loss of funds and of confidence in the City of London.

Some $597.5bn was lost to the banks in the last quarter of last year alone, after a modest positive inflow in the summer, but a massive $682.5bn hemorrhaged in the second quarter of 2008 – a record. About 15 per cent of the monies held by foreigners in the UK were withdrawn over the period, leaving about $6 trillion. This is by far the largest withdrawal of foreign funds from the UK in recent decades – about 10 times what might flow out during a "normal" quarter.

The revelation will fuel fears that the UK's reputation as a safe place to hold funds is being fatally compromised by the acute crisis in the banking system and a general trend to financial protectionism internationally. This week, Lloyds became the latest bank to approach the Government for more assistance. A deal was agreed last night for the Government to insure about £260bn of assets in return for a stake of up to 75 per cent in the bank. The slide in sterling – it has shed a quarter of its value since mid-2007 – has been both cause and effect of the run on London, seemingly becoming a self-fulfilling phenomenon. The danger is that the heavy depreciation of the pound could become a rout if confidence completely evaporates.

Colin Ellis, an economist at Daiwa Securities, commented: "The outflow of overseas banks' UK holdings is not surprising – indeed foreign investors in general will still be smarting from the sharp fall in the exchange rate last year, as many UK liabilities are priced in sterling terms. That raises the question of what could possibly tempt overseas investors to return to the UK. Further heavy outflows of funds are probably a given."

The Bank of England said that there had been a large fall in deposits from the United States, Switzerland, offshore centres such as Jersey and the Cayman Islands, and from Russia.

Paranoia that the UK could follow Iceland into effective national insolvency and jibes about "Reykjavik on Thames" will find an unwelcome substantiation in these statistics – which also show that stricken British banks are having to repatriate similar sums back to Britain. This is scant consolation for the authorities, however, as it means the UK and sterling are, like some emerging markets and currencies, suffering from a flight of capital. By contrast some financial centres and currencies – notably the US dollar and the Swiss franc – are enjoying a boost as "safe havens" in a troubled world.

The sudden international trend towards financial deglobalisation and the flight of money to "home" bases has nonetheless been dramatic. The Prime Minister has already warned about this drift to "financial protectionism" – even though UK banks brought back almost $600bn in the last months of 2008, as they attempted to repair fragile balance sheets. Mr Ellis added: "These data are consistent with UK banks reducing their overseas holdings, at the same time as overseas banks scale back their presence in the UK. That is not surprising, given that governments around the world are having to prop up their banking sectors, and in turn demanding that national institutions focus on domestic markets. But it does run the risk of being financial protectionism by the back door."

Investment from the West into developing countries has fallen from the level of about $1 trillion a year seen earlier this decade to about $150bn last year. Economies in eastern Europe such as Hungary and the Baltic republics, some in Asia such as Pakistan and developed nations such as Iceland have been severely hit by the collapse in foreign investment.

Like Iceland, the UK has an unusually large banking sector in relation to her national income, with liabilities four times GDP. Should the UK taxpayer have to assume these debts it will represent, in relation to GDP, about double the national debt the nation bore at the end of the Second World War, a near unsustainable burden.

 

[omegapoint]

You can't divorce the hope of reviving the banks assets that are now toxic from the jobs creating aspects of Obamas plan. First, banks are crucial ...credit. The hope is, and everyone agrees getting out of this mess is new territory, that getting a critical mass of the middle class back to work, where they can afford their mortgages, will make the assets on the banks' books more attractive to investors. Also, gettin those people back to work of course will jump start spending and turn a vicious circle into a virtuous one gradually. The alternative is letting everything fail and creating Hoovervilles across America ...a liberal President will not allow that. Then, consider the possibilities for encouraging energy taking over from military spending as the mainstay of Americas economic engine. If we can get that to take off and subplant it then we have a global golden goose that is so much more rational than depending on creating wars where there aren't any. Everyone knows Americas strength is R&D so where better to invest it then energy. Thing is its been widely documented that the rest of the world is graduating engineers while we graduate MBAs and lawyers. Consider the contrast in the futures of those two types of societies. Its getting late.

 

[OPTIONAL777]

Hear, here...

A person can either look at this as an opportunity for change, or something to wet their pants about.

I think America wants change from the old ways of doing business, that began in the Reagan greed era.

What a marvelous opportunity...we get, a second chance following the oil shock and recession of the seventies...to build for the future by leading the world in new technology and energy development...and to wean ourselves off of the dependency on middle east oil and other unfriendly foreign oil producers.

Energy, education, equality, and regulation of greed and corruption by an enlightened transparent government that understands that left alone human nature will undoubtedly sink to the lowest level...sounds almost like a Utopian society.

Quote from omegapoint:

You can't divorce the hope of reviving the banks assets that are now toxic from the jobs creating aspects of Obamas plan. First, banks are crucial ...credit. The hope is, and everyone agrees getting out of this mess is new territory, that getting a critical mass of the middle class back to work, where they can afford their mortgages, will make the assets on the banks' books more attractive to investors. Also, gettin those people back to work of course will jump start spending and turn a vicious circle into a virtuous one gradually. The alternative is letting everything fail and creating Hoovervilles across America ...a liberal President will not allow that. Then, consider the possibilities for encouraging energy taking over from military spending as the mainstay of Americas economic engine. If we can get that to take off and subplant it then we have a global golden goose that is so much more rational than depending on creating wars where there aren't any. Everyone knows Americas strength is R&D so where better to invest it then energy. Thing is its been widely documented that the rest of the world is graduating engineers while we graduate MBAs and lawyers. Consider the contrast in the futures of those two types of societies. Its getting late.

 

[NeoRio1]

Quote from omegapoint:

You can't divorce the hope of reviving the banks assets that are now toxic from the jobs creating aspects of Obamas plan. First, banks are crucial ...credit. The hope is, and everyone agrees getting out of this mess is new territory, that getting a critical mass of the middle class back to work, where they can afford their mortgages, will make the assets on the banks' books more attractive to investors. Also, gettin those people back to work of course will jump start spending and turn a vicious circle into a virtuous one gradually. The alternative is letting everything fail and creating Hoovervilles across America ...a liberal President will not allow that. Then, consider the possibilities for encouraging energy taking over from military spending as the mainstay of Americas economic engine. If we can get that to take off and subplant it then we have a global golden goose that is so much more rational than depending on creating wars where there aren't any. Everyone knows Americas strength is R&D so where better to invest it then energy. Thing is its been widely documented that the rest of the world is graduating engineers while we graduate MBAs and lawyers. Consider the contrast in the futures of those two types of societies. Its getting late.

Yes Obama wants more jobs however he hasn't been honest to the American people about creating a banking plan. I just don't understand why he doesn't even consider putting forth solutions that his administration is looking into. Don't you feel like your still in the dark when it comes to Obama's ideas about the banks?

When Geithner killed the market a couple weeks ago the market was not selling because they thought the Obama administration were a bunch of socialists. They sold off because the market and the economy is slowly realizing that the Obama administration may in fact turn 50% of the countries banks into zombies. The length of time it will take for these zombies to come back to life will be decades.

I think right now our country needs a leader who has the ability of making the toughest decisions in the world and Obama is not that leader.

Do you want a 10-20% increase in taxes for the next 10 years due to the fact that we weren't willing to let the economy adjust normally?

I sure don't and I think if we accept reality now we will be able to get out of this mess much quicker.

The people with the most amount of money in this country are controlling things and manipulating people into thinking that we must save all of the banks that made the bad loans. Obama has acted like a liberal when it comes to taxes but he has been the biggest fear mongering chearleader for the corporations that pales in comparison to Bush's Iraq fear mongering.

Iraq was 150 billion a year. This is over a trillion.

Seriously ask yourself. Why else would Obama remind the public daily that we are in a worse situation then the great depression other then to justify giving away billions of tax payer money to the corporations.

No one is going to starve and everyone will have clothing and shelter. Putting the chains around the tax payer should not be an option and it is immoral.

Damn Obama for doing what he is doing to the tax payer.

 

[omegapoint]

Quote from NeoRio1:

Yes Obama wants more jobs however he hasn't been honest to the American people about creating a banking plan. I just don't understand why he doesn't even consider putting forth solutions that his administration is looking into. Don't you feel like your still in the dark when it comes to Obama's ideas about the banks?


Why would you ask me that when I just outlined that I understand his plan in the other post. And, if you didn't watch Geitner address the congressional comittee then you're not paying attention. The plan is out there, whether you like it is another question.

When Geithner killed the market a couple weeks ago the market was not selling because they thought the Obama administration were a bunch of socialists. They sold off because the market and the economy is slowly realizing that the Obama administration may in fact turn 50% of the countries banks into zombies. The length of time it will take for these zombies to come back to life will be decades.

Again I refer you to what I outlined that their plan for banks is.
Try to understand the difference between appeasing day traders RIGHT NOW and trying to incrementally work towards fixing the aggregate economy.

I think right now our country needs a leader who has the ability of making the toughest decisions in the world and Obama is not that leader.

How tough it was for Obama to invoke his plan is directly proportional to how much criticism he's having to endure from unenlightened types like Limbaugh who foster a politics of greed.
His handlers have taken good care of him. How can you like anybody who hates animals.

Do you want a 10-20% increase in taxes for the next 10 years due to the fact that we weren't willing to let the economy adjust normally?

I dunno, do you make over 250k a year? If you don't get back to me after you're done your taxes in 2010 and let me know if you've done better. What part of 95% don't you understand, its the number just after 94 and before 96. As for the wealthy -- fuck em. America was built on a top tax bracket of 90%, then 70%, Reagan took it to 50% and raised payroll taxes on the middle class. Obama will increase over 250K by 3 cents on the dollar. Compared to what people out of jobs are going through
it ain't shit. Are you really going to defend Oprah, Miley Cyrus and Tom Cruises pay scale?

I sure don't and I think if we accept reality now we will be able to get out of this mess much quicker.

Don't let Limbaugh define your reality for you ...unless you're wealthy too. Yea, its a war on the wealthy, they've been waging it on the middle class now for how long. In the 70s CEOs incomes were 30 times their employees now they're 300 times them.

The people with the most amount of money in this country are controlling things and manipulating people into thinking that we must save all of the banks that made the bad loans. Obama has acted like a liberal when it comes to taxes but he has been the biggest fear mongering chearleader for the corporations that pales in comparison to Bush's Iraq fear mongering.

Lets see --"people with the most amount of money ...!" Obama wants to save the banks too and he wants to raise taxes on people who make the most amount of money ...is there an inconsistency there? As much as I harbour a disdain for corporations, right now they do the hiring and need a middle class who can afford to buy their products.

Iraq was 150 billion a year. This is over a trillion.

Iraq was for daddies vendetta, this is hoping for a better future for the middle class.

Seriously ask yourself. Why else would Obama remind the public daily that we are in a worse situation then the great depression other then to justify giving away billions of tax payer money to the corporations.

It'd be better if he kept us in the dark? Even if you disagree with his plan at least he's communicating with THE PEOPLE. WOW, "giving away billions to corporations" you're starting to sound like Chomsky or Kucinich or Nader.

No one is going to starve and everyone will have clothing and shelter. Putting the chains around the tax payer should not be an option and it is immoral.

Again, which taxpayers. Are we eating into Trumps kids Mercedes payment? Oh, they must pay cash.

Damn Obama for doing what he is doing to the tax payer.

95%, it comes after 94%.

 

[omegapoint]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Hear, here...

A person can either look at this as an opportunity for change, or something to wet their pants about.

I think America wants change from the old ways of doing business, that began in the Reagan greed era.

What a marvelous opportunity...we get, a second chance following the oil shock and recession of the seventies...to build for the future by leading the world in new technology and energy development...and to wean ourselves off of the dependency on middle east oil and other unfriendly foreign oil producers.

Energy, education, equality, and regulation of greed and corruption by an enlightened transparent government that understands that left alone human nature will undoubtedly sink to the lowest level...sounds almost like a Utopian society.

Obama pulling us out of this will render the republican messge obsolete. and they know it, it must scare them to death. Isn't it funny how after they saw Obamas success they rushed out and promoted Steele and Jindal and held them up to Amercia like, "look we're multi racial too". As for myself I think the general human nature has the capacity to go both ways but the downside needs a stop AND you can have all the mental stops you want but if you never hit the button they're useless ...meaning enforcement not just enforcement, but lets get all the money they absconded with back and our time. I don't know how the term Utiopian ever got a negative connotation.