Pattern Daytrading poll
- Thread starter hii a_ooiioo_a
- Start date
We both signed such a waiver when we opened our accounts with Interactive Brokers.
KayMan said,
"I wonder when you finally have $25,000 to daytrade will you still have this crusade to have the PDT rule eliminated? Quit whinning, save up $25,000, then you're on your way HAHAHA"
I do. You've missed the entire point of these arguments. This is about individual rights and freedom of choice, not about the size of your bankroll. And also it's not about lawsuits or misleading commercials either. If there is a problem with those then deal with those on their own level which they have to some degree (putting more restrictions on what commercials claim, etc.) but don't restrict our trading because of this. I enjoyed those commercials. Some were very funny. Didn't you think? They were so over the top you couldn't help but laugh. The tow truck driver with his own island, and Stewart from Ameritrade. Ha. Come on, lighten up! We can kid each other about this too. No? Lightens the load in a difficult profession.
Having more than $25,000 in your account or less is not a measure of your trading ability. And here's another argument about "grandpa". Why shouldn't grandpa, who is on a fixed retirement income and knows a lot about trading since he's been around a long time, be able to trade his $3-5,000 account 5-6 times a week and make a few hundred dollars to supplement his income? Does that hurt you?
"I wonder when you finally have $25,000 to daytrade will you still have this crusade to have the PDT rule eliminated? Quit whinning, save up $25,000, then you're on your way HAHAHA"
I do. You've missed the entire point of these arguments. This is about individual rights and freedom of choice, not about the size of your bankroll. And also it's not about lawsuits or misleading commercials either. If there is a problem with those then deal with those on their own level which they have to some degree (putting more restrictions on what commercials claim, etc.) but don't restrict our trading because of this. I enjoyed those commercials. Some were very funny. Didn't you think? They were so over the top you couldn't help but laugh. The tow truck driver with his own island, and Stewart from Ameritrade. Ha. Come on, lighten up! We can kid each other about this too. No? Lightens the load in a difficult profession.
Having more than $25,000 in your account or less is not a measure of your trading ability. And here's another argument about "grandpa". Why shouldn't grandpa, who is on a fixed retirement income and knows a lot about trading since he's been around a long time, be able to trade his $3-5,000 account 5-6 times a week and make a few hundred dollars to supplement his income? Does that hurt you?
I suppose you're a broker yourself and have never tried to open an account at InteractiveBrokers.
We have to agree not to sue InteractiveBrokers even if we incur losses directly and indisputably caused by their system failure.
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LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: CUSTOMER ACCEPTS THE IB SYSTEM "AS IS", AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE, PURPOSE OR APPLICATION; TIMELINESS; FREEDOM FROM INTERRUPTION; OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES ARISING FROM TRADE USAGE, COURSE OF DEALING OR COURSE OF PERFORMANCE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL IB BE LIABLE FOR ANY PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL LOSS OR DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOSS OF BUSINESS, PROFITS OR GOODWILL. IB SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO CUSTOMER BY REASON OF DELAYS OR INTERRUPTIONS OF SERVICE OR TRANSMISSIONS, OR FAILURES OF PERFORMANCE OF THE IB SYSTEM, REGARDLESS OF CAUSE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THOSE CAUSED BY HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE MALFUNCTION; GOVERNMENTAL, EXCHANGE OR OTHER REGULATORY ACTION; ACTS OF GOD; OR IB'S INTENTIONAL ACTS. CUSTOMER RECOGNIZES THAT THERE MAY BE DELAYS OR INTERRUPTIONS IN THE USE OF THE IB SYSTEM, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, THOSE CAUSED INTENTIONALLY BY IB FOR PURPOSES OF SERVICING THE IB SYSTEM. CUSTOMER ACKNOWLEDGES THAT CUSTOMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING ALTERNATIVE TRADING ARRANGEMENTS IN ADDITION TO CUSTOMER'S IB ACCOUNT. IN NO EVENT SHALL IB'S LIABILITY, REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF ACTION AND DAMAGES SUFFERED BY CUSTOMER, EXCEED THE HIGHEST AGGREGATE MONTHLY COMMISSIONS AND FEES PAID BY CUSTOMER TO IB.
We have to agree not to sue InteractiveBrokers even if we incur losses directly and indisputably caused by their system failure.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY: CUSTOMER ACCEPTS THE IB SYSTEM "AS IS", AND WITHOUT WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR USE, PURPOSE OR APPLICATION; TIMELINESS; FREEDOM FROM INTERRUPTION; OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES ARISING FROM TRADE USAGE, COURSE OF DEALING OR COURSE OF PERFORMANCE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL IB BE LIABLE FOR ANY PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL LOSS OR DAMAGES, INCLUDING LOSS OF BUSINESS, PROFITS OR GOODWILL. IB SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO CUSTOMER BY REASON OF DELAYS OR INTERRUPTIONS OF SERVICE OR TRANSMISSIONS, OR FAILURES OF PERFORMANCE OF THE IB SYSTEM, REGARDLESS OF CAUSE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THOSE CAUSED BY HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE MALFUNCTION; GOVERNMENTAL, EXCHANGE OR OTHER REGULATORY ACTION; ACTS OF GOD; OR IB'S INTENTIONAL ACTS. CUSTOMER RECOGNIZES THAT THERE MAY BE DELAYS OR INTERRUPTIONS IN THE USE OF THE IB SYSTEM, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, THOSE CAUSED INTENTIONALLY BY IB FOR PURPOSES OF SERVICING THE IB SYSTEM. CUSTOMER ACKNOWLEDGES THAT CUSTOMER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING ALTERNATIVE TRADING ARRANGEMENTS IN ADDITION TO CUSTOMER'S IB ACCOUNT. IN NO EVENT SHALL IB'S LIABILITY, REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF ACTION AND DAMAGES SUFFERED BY CUSTOMER, EXCEED THE HIGHEST AGGREGATE MONTHLY COMMISSIONS AND FEES PAID BY CUSTOMER TO IB.
HI Io
I know what customer agreements say....now take that agreement to any atorney worth his salt and you will see it's worthles...It helps, but a decent attorney and a client who says " i didn't know what i was signign , they said i had to sign allthis stuff" will win in a lawsuit....BTW im not a broker....
I know what customer agreements say....now take that agreement to any atorney worth his salt and you will see it's worthles...It helps, but a decent attorney and a client who says " i didn't know what i was signign , they said i had to sign allthis stuff" will win in a lawsuit....BTW im not a broker....
We have to sign this waiver and dozens more like it when we open and use an account at InteractiveBrokers.
InteractiveBrokers has a billion dollars, debt free. It would never ever occur to me that after signing all these disclaimers and waivers of rights in my use of InteractiveBrokers, that if I lose my money through my own trading decisions, I might call up one of the personal injury lawyers that advertise on TV at 1:00am and think that I would have a chance in hell of winning a suit for financial damages against InteractiveBrokers.
InteractiveBrokers has a billion dollars, debt free. It would never ever occur to me that after signing all these disclaimers and waivers of rights in my use of InteractiveBrokers, that if I lose my money through my own trading decisions, I might call up one of the personal injury lawyers that advertise on TV at 1:00am and think that I would have a chance in hell of winning a suit for financial damages against InteractiveBrokers.
You are finally understanding it!!
Ya see, you sign all that stuff because IB is hoping that will suffice in legal action...however, I have been in cases where even more obvious and blatant language is used, yet we lsot the case because the judge feels sorry for the little guy..."and after all, your company is huge with over a billion dollars in cash, surely you can afford to give him his 7k in lost money back..lust court fees, punitive and legal fees...make it 18k!"
Ya see, you sign all that stuff because IB is hoping that will suffice in legal action...however, I have been in cases where even more obvious and blatant language is used, yet we lsot the case because the judge feels sorry for the little guy..."and after all, your company is huge with over a billion dollars in cash, surely you can afford to give him his 7k in lost money back..lust court fees, punitive and legal fees...make it 18k!"
Your complaint is a legalistic one, you've somehow been involved in this issue where you're seeing the extreme cases of those who do sue. They are an atypical minority. Most of us have agreed to these waivers and disclaimers, and would never have considered ever bringing legal action against our brokers to regain our own trading losses, with or without those waivers in the agreement.
What is your profession that has led you to be involved in these court cases, if you're not a broker?
What is your profession that has led you to be involved in these court cases, if you're not a broker?