Pattern Day Traing with under 25k

All you traders out there take a look at FOREX.

I worked ops for a now defunked Direct Access Broker.

I saw a trading room full of traders fall from over 100 traders down to 6.

Forex is the coming Day Trading gig.

Its 1997 again, you get another chance.

The difference now is I think the smart student of trading, get a mentor, find someone who has been in FOREX for years and pick their brain.
 
Sure Kelly , I have seen it posted on a mulittude of websites but did a real quick search on GOOG and here is just one example....
With over 80% of all options expiring worthless, we feel that option writing should no longer be the exclusive domain of the professional trader from http://www.optionsellers.com.


Since 80% of options expire worthless, some people write options as a source ...www.fool.com/FoolFAQ/foolfaq0055.htm



But now I find a different percentage and this would seem to be one the more reliable sources....


Since the beginning of the listed options industry in the U.S., The Options Clearing Corporation (OCC) has kept monthly statistics on the percentage of options that are exercised, closed prior to expiration or expire worthless. A copy of the latest annual "Market Statistics" brochure is available from the Web site of Chicago Board Options Exchange at www.cboe.com. Nearly 30 years of statistics indicate that, on average, approximately 15% of options are exercised, approximately 55% are closed prior to expiration, and approximately 30% expire worthless. Closed means traded out of, i.e., long, or purchased options are sold, and short, or written, options are repurchased. Note that this data does not reveal how many trades are profitable.

Source..http://options2.registeredrep.com/ar/finance_article_6/



Here are a just a few there a countless sources but I for one like the leverage and by trading options near the strike price have managed to make some nice $$$$.


Hope that some of these posts help but there is alot of conflicting data on this particular subject, SS
 
I dont blame anyone that one that wants to prop trade to start out with 5k and be heavily leveraged is great for alot of traders, but I personally didnt want to get into trading millions of shares .


For health reasons and staying indepent I chose to trade my own account and have managed in a few trades to bring my account above 25k so the PDT rule doesnt effect me any longer.


The reason for starting this thread was just to put out a alternative for those that are stuck with the T+3 settlement.


So far this thread has already has some informative posts SSFs, Prop, and trading the Forex as well a options.


I certainly agree with that the SEC has pushed out the little guy and that the Forex in the last few years has made major strides and has become a nice alternative for the smaller trader.


Nice infromative post agin1415 I am not that knowlegeable about trading the Forex but you have did post some nice info for some others that may be interested in that type of trading.



Thanks to everyone for the great posts and lets keep them coming, SS
 
SSF's can be too illiquid for daytrading

but I agree that perhaps for swing trading

its ok to give up the spread to get in and out
 
Sorry, I posted earlier that it was T+1 is not , you can daytrade options all you want until you run out of cash, then do it again the next day.


Trading options rocks I dont even bother to watch stocks that do not have options on them. Plus the % gainers are unreal they are sick... at one time all I traded was penny stocks and options make those look like bluechips.


Do yourself a favor and check them out , SS
 
There's some confusion here. Not my area of expertise, fortunately, but I'll see if I can talk about it.

Equity (i.e. stock) options are covered by the PDT rule. You can only make 3 day-trades per rolling 5-day period. The problem with daytrading margin accounts under $25K has nothing to do with T+3 settlement - it has to do with the limit on the number of day trades. That is, if you have a $20K account, you can do 3 $40K round-trips on one day, but you then have to wait until T+5 before you can day-trade again. Some firms may allow you to put on positions before then, but if any turn into day-trades, you'll get restricted until you bring your account up to $25K or 90 days have passed (I think). Other firms don't let you put on any new positions until 5 days after the third day-trade.

Cash accounts are limited by the settlement rules. You only get use of your cash one time and then have to wait for it to settle. I believe, with a $100K cash account, you can do 10 $10K round-trips on one day, but you then have to wait for the funds to settle (i.e. T+3 for equities, T+1 for equity options) before you can trade again.

Things not subject to the PDT rule:

Futures
Options on Futures
ForEx
CFDs?
Foreign and US stocks when cleared by foreign, non-NYSE/NASDAQ member firms
 
Thanks for the post , I thought from what I had read that is was exactly the way you posted. But when I started trading options there is no waiting period , the cash is ready to trade the next day. I have a options forum now and some of the traders do not have a account of 25k+ and they are making at least 10 trades a week.



They use Ameritrade, E-trade, RML trading ,etc. I also have a second acct. that is not up to 25k and I can trade daily until my cash is used up then it is available the next day.



Thanks for the reply there is alot of confusions about this and I just wanted to try to clear it up, SS
 
SS: Are those cash accounts or margin accounts?

If they are margin accounts, unless I'm missing something, I believe they are breaking the law. I thought that the firms you mentioned had tightened up on that at the same time as everyone else (IB was first, I think, to get hit with it).
 
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