Patak Trading

Quote from Maverick74:

All the risk limits and numbers are posted. I honestly don't know what your complaint is. You should hear the shit that happens at big prop firms where guys make 500k in p&l and expect to get 200k in a bonus and end up with 25k and a gift certificate to the jelly of the monthly club. What exactly do you want these guys to do for you? You are a strange guy probably living out of state who they will never ever meet in person and they are going to give you a line to swing. What else do you want and what is the alternative?
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I'm not asking them for anything nor am I complaining. I'm pointing out that "account size" doesn't mean fkock all.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

None of this is based on facts. They currently have over 40 funded and live traders at this moment. Let me guess, they are all raking it in? Come on dude. Either you believe they are all making money, which I doubt, or some or most of them are trading in a debit at the moment. The math can't work both ways.
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I'm saying none of the guys losing real money has likely lost more than a few thousand dollars. Also, based on number of people engaged, I'd guess they are making money despite the couple of thousand bucks they let every new live trader lose. Then, there are probably some who are actually making them money. Of course I'm not saying they shouldn't make money.

Are you telling me they are like the best big prop firms and that they are laying it on the line for random guys on the internets? (see? I can make a straw man argument, too)
 
Quote from caementarius:

I'm not asking them for anything nor am I complaining. I'm pointing out that "account size" doesn't mean fkock all.
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Well, no actually. The account size is representative of what a normal trader would use as risk limits. For example on a 50k account, the 1k daily loss is 2% of your equity which is what a normal reasonable trader would use. They use account sizes so the risk metrics can be generated. Nothing new or controversial here.
 
Quote from caementarius:

I'm saying none of the guys losing real money has likely lost more than a few thousand dollars. Also, based on number of people engaged, I'd guess they are making money despite the couple of thousand bucks they let every new live trader lose. Then, there are probably some who are actually making them money. Of course I'm not saying they shouldn't make money.

Are you telling me they are like the best big prop firms and that they are laying it on the line for random guys on the internets? (see? I can make a straw man argument, too)
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OK, look, here is my understanding. Topstep is NOT backing any traders, they are not registered to do so. They are setup like a capital introduction firm. They have outside investors who invest in "groups of traders". I'm sure topstep get's a marketing fee for this setup and a kickback on the commish. Topstep is in the business of introducing business. There is nothing new under the sun here other then clever marketing. So topstep's revenue stream is different from that of the investor and different from that as the trader.
 
Mav do you work for them? Are you M Patak?

Let's be clear on three things:

1. Patak's photoshopped self portrait on the homepage of top step and patak llc is very narcissist of him. So much for being a good trader.

2. The website is similar to a failed website by patak based on the same idea, but for gaming. This was pointed out before.

3. The account size is a lie. They do not back you with "$100k", they back you with $6k-$15k because that's how much margin it costs to use 15 contracts.



There are apparently many "funded" traders, which is good. I wish some would post here. Based on the number of recruits (hundreds) on their page, they obviously make lots of money from the combine. They say that someone who hits the daily loss limit (very small) will be sent back to the combine. In other words, everyone will be sent back at least once in the next year.

I wonder if people are hired by Patak or just given a check. I also wonder if recruits must sign a contract so they don't make money for a month then leave the firm with nothing but a bunch of loser recruits giving deposit money.

Overall I get the impression that they are poor losers with some live traders, but don't care about the success of their poorer recruits. Seems like it stinks. :( Anyone want to clarify and prove me wrong? :)
 
Quote from tenthousandmen:

Mav do you work for them? Are you M Patak?

Let's be clear on three things:

1. Patak's photoshopped self portrait on the homepage of top step and patak llc is very narcissist of him. So much for being a good trader.

2. The website is similar to a failed website by patak based on the same idea, but for gaming. This was pointed out before.

3. The account size is a lie. They do not back you with "$100k", they back you with $6k-$15k because that's how much margin it costs to use 15 contracts.



There are apparently many "funded" traders, which is good. I wish some would post here. Based on the number of recruits (hundreds) on their page, they obviously make lots of money from the combine. They say that someone who hits the daily loss limit (very small) will be sent back to the combine. In other words, everyone will be sent back at least once in the next year.

I wonder if people are hired by Patak or just given a check. I also wonder if recruits must sign a contract so they don't make money for a month then leave the firm with nothing but a bunch of loser recruits giving deposit money.

Overall I get the impression that they are poor losers with some live traders, but don't care about the success of their poorer recruits. Seems like it stinks. :( Anyone want to clarify and prove me wrong? :)
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I honestly can't make heads or tails of anything you just posted. I'm serious. No, I have no affiliation with them. I'm just aware of how MOST prop firms work in Chicago as I have been in the industry for a while. By no means is topstep the place for everyone but if you think you have the resume to get into TMG, Chopper or Infinium, by all means send it in.

Most guys will NEVER even get an interview at those shops much less get hired. That is just a fact. As far as hitting your daily risk limit, they explicitly tell you that you CAN NOT hit that. Good lord people, it's called discipline. Just stop trading before you hit that max loss. They shut you off even on the sim account if you hit it, yes on the sim account!!!! They DON'T want you to hit that. They make that very clear.

As far as everything else, I don't even know how to respond. Why don't you send your resume out and get back to us on how those interviews work out for you. You know, since there is so much "opportunity" out there. We would love to hear about it. Same for the OP.
 
You're looking at perhaps 5% meeting the grade. Then some additional hoops before being allowed to trade one lots? Plus these 40 guys are not given enough rope to hang themselves. They're in it for the fees. $55k for 300 applicants... that's what's driving the business.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Don,

Victor Securities will give you 6 to 1. Give them a call.
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They will guarantee 6 times equity? And completely disregard the rules for Risk margin? What's their number? PM me the main guy, I may move.

Don

edit: I found the number, probably went home, I'll try again tomorrow. If you know a name, PM me, thanks.
 
Quote from atticus:

You're looking at perhaps 5% meeting the grade. Then some additional hoops before being allowed to trade one lots? Plus these 40 guys are not given enough rope to hang themselves. They're in it for the fees. $50k for 300 applicants... that's what's driving the business.
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Who gives a shit. I'll post the links to TMG's, Chopper and Infinium's application page. Beck, you want to make a market on the over/under on how many of these ET'ers get interview and hired? I already know where my market is.

Look, the average guy on ET can't fund $50 in an Oanda account. Topstep is not an alternative to Citadel or DRW, it's an alternative for most of these guys who are debating whether they should sell their trading signals on Zulutrade.
 
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