Patak Trading

[volente_00]

Quote from operator:

I agree, broke is the key word. Loss limit is a little tight and really no room for error, but the upside can be much greater than trading 1 lot with 800 bucks.

I disagree.

If you can make 8 points per week in ES min that they require, then starting with a $800 account, after 7 weeks you will be able to trade the same size intraday that they offer and keep 100% of your profits at a lower tax liability. If you can't scrape up $800 then I guess the dream they sell is your only alternative.

 

[athlonmank8]

Quote from operator:

Most likely you will lose it.

What deal would you like to see if something is giving you money to trade with? 50k lost limited and 1MM in capital and 99% payout?

lmao I was thinking the same thing.

These guys are giving college morons (and I don't use this term loosely) $2k of firm money and are asking for 60/40? Let's be honest. We're not talking engineers/math and stats majors. We're talking finance, human resources (ESPECIALLY THIS ONE), marketing, communication, and maybe even some economics. Shit, I wouldn't drop a dime on them.

$10k not enough to trade futures? Again, what in the world are you guys talking about? 10k is plenty when you have zero clue what you're doing.

IMO this isn't a bad deal at all granted you had a profitable system and had ZERO capital to trade with. Why not take the opp to blow out $2k and try and make it big?

60% isn't bad when you're risking NOTHING. You guys need to think a little harder here.

where does it say $200/month for S/W?

 

[athlonmank8]

Quote from operator:

I agree, broke is the key word. Loss limit is a little tight and really no room for error, but the upside can be much greater than trading 1 lot with 800 bucks.

That's the point though. No room for error. If they left room for error, they wouldn't be in business. It's a game of math, and they're hoping they get talent in there for CHEAP. $2k risk for a bright trader who has nothing? IMO that's a pretty good offer for both sides.

Quote from volente_00:

I disagree.

If you can make 8 points per week in ES min that they require, then starting with a $800 account, after 7 weeks you will be able to trade the same size intraday that they offer and keep 100% of your profits at a lower tax liability. If you can't scrape up $800 then I guess the dream they sell is your only alternative.

I disagree. This is paper trading with a potential reward.


Once again, you're missing the point. They're putting up their own money for you to develop an edge. You know what the probabilities of that happening are? Not very good.

Now I do see where you're coming from.

If you have an edge, then 60% is garbage. It's completely awful and not worth it by any means UNLESS you have zero disposable income.

EDIT: It looks like too much work for too little pay for anyone starting out with an edge.

 

[volente_00]

"It's a game of math, and they're hoping they get talent in there for CHEAP. $2k risk for a bright trader who has nothing? IMO that's a pretty good offer for both sides."



Any smart person who is able to generate 8 ES points consistently under all of their conditions will not stay in this deal long. The only thing they are offering is $2000 worth of risk capital. No training or anything else. Once the trader has built up a small amount they would be a fool to stick around to do all of the work for 60% of the money at a higher tax liability.


This poster sums it up

Quote from Dobbes:

Part of my decision to quit was this math: If you do a banner year and get +800%, you are still making a paltry amount of money, and the splits give you incentive to maintain and attempt to grow the account with them. Myself, I was looking for something I could use as a career... busting my ass, being in the top 10% of traders and taking home <50k/yr pre-tax under a best case scenario just didn't seem worth it to me. Anyways, Patak is making most of its money off of people rushing into combines and getting crushed. Through the chat, I saw hundreds of traders wash out. They have no interest or infrastructure to help you succeed. You have no access to senior traders, and Eddy and Mike will only give you vague and useless advice.

Think about how the model works: They target college students and post on college job boards. These are people that by definition have minor and informal at best trading experience. They then set a very high bar of short-term performance, charge them what they can get away with, and let them flop. Hopefully, they get hooked on the game and come back for seconds.

It is as legitimate as a US prop firm gets, but that doesn't make it a good deal. If you're looking for a career in financial markets, look elsewhere.

 

[rawman74]

I've tried two Combines with them. In December I had one week of "training". I didn't need it. I made $5000 in 5 days usually getting filled on 3 of 5 lots. The next week (my first week of Combine) I made another $3000 in 3 days doing the same as first week. I got chopped up in the middle of December and ended the month up $5500 (I'm including training even they don't count it to go live). Last month wasn't as good to me as I ended the month down $2000 ( it was $5000 but I made $3000 in 3 days to reduce the loss). My disappointment is last week. I tried their accelerated Combine (I traded 5 lots all week with 2 point stops). I made $1100 my first day. I lost $500 the second. I lost $538 the third. I made $1500 the the fourth. I made $600 the fifth day. I ended the week with a balance of $2025 (I hit their target). My frustration is the criteria for the accelerated Combine is stricter than being live. Based on my perfomance last week I would still be in the game as a live trader. Another thing I hated was the sudden volume requirement for the accelerated Combine. There is no volume requirement for training, Combine or live just this Accelerated Combine. I was eliminated for consideration as a live trader because I lost $500 more than once. I'm one of those poor boys you guys talk about that can trade so this is as good a deal as I can get right now.

 

[rolextrader]

You'll make more money selling Tupperware at house parties than with this group of chumps.

This is just another slick scheme to lure wannabbees to become a real trader for $80 at their boot camp. And, in the most unlikely event you get passed the combine, they tie your hands behind your back with unreasonable money management rules and charge retail commission which is despicable given the fact they are exchange members. All of which leads you back to the combine.

My advice: sim trade for free with any broker providing NinjaTrader (which is a far superior platform to T4.) and if you think you can make money, yet are undercapitalized, borrow it from friends/family.

 

[rawman74]

I wish had the nerve to ask my multimillionaire uncle but I don't. I will come in to a sizable trust when he sells his bank but that could be tomorrow or ten years from now.

 

[rolextrader]

Quote from rawman74:

I wish had the nerve to ask my multimillionaire uncle but I don't. I will come in to a sizable trust when he sells his bank but that could be tomorrow or ten years from now.

What are you scared of? Worst case, he says "no." Best case, he surprises you and writes a check for $10K. Tell him you won't lose more than $2K (just like Patak).

 

[rawman74]

One good thing about Patak is it has given me a feel for futures trading. Another thing that bothers me is the different loss limits for Combine versus live. What if you learn to trade one way in Combine but find it doesnt work with the tighter stop limit live? As for my uncle now that I've experienced futures trading with Patak it's something I will consider. I guess I had an irrational fear of futures as a retail guy until I tried it.

 

[Lucias]

The fastest way to lose money is to use tight stops in my experience. I'm not stating it is impossible to make money that way but it will be much more difficult.

Your fear wasn't irrational.

Quote from rawman74:

One good thing about Patak is it has given me a feel for futures trading. Another thing that bothers me is the different loss limits for Combine versus live. What if you learn to trade one way in Combine but find it doesnt work with the tighter stop limit live? As for my uncle now that I've experienced futures trading with Patak it's something I will consider. I guess I had an irrational fear of futures as a retail guy until I tried it.