Patak Trading

Quote from sailtheworld:

50k is just the combine and training accounts. Live accounts start at 10k
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That would be quite disappointing. But I'm still confused. this is directly from the link that is quoted above:

"Those who complete the Combine objective will receive the Live Trader Set-Up. TopstepTrader will seek out and back profitable traders that complete the Combine Objective. All live Traders will receive the tools in the menu bar on the left under Live Trading Includes. Live accounts start with a balance of $50,000. If the account balance falls below $48,000 we will move the live trader back to the Combine. They will then have to complete the Combine objective before we will re-activate their live account."

Unless you are saying that what's being said above("Live accounts start with a balance of $50,000.") is NOT true in practice...

Pls CONFIRM this fact. If so that's quite a difference from what's stated above..
 
Never mind. Two weeks ago when I was looking at that website the set up was this:

Training: 50k, 1k daily loss limit, 5 contracts at a time maximum
Combine: 50k, 1k daily loss limit, 5 contracts at a time
Live: 10k, don't remember daily loss, 5 contracts at a time

I think that is what Dobbs and previous posters were referring to.

They must have changed this within the last week because it is now:

Training: 50k, no daily loss limit, 5 contracts at a time maximum
Combine: 50k, 1k daily loss limit, 5 contracts at a time
Live: 50-60k, 500$ daily loss limit, 5 contracts at a time

My question to the veterans is, do you guys think this change makes it more worthwhile now with this increase in live account size?
 
Quote from sailtheworld:



My question to the veterans is, do you guys think this change makes it more worthwhile now with this increase in live account size?
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There isn't really a change. You still have the same loss limit before you are deactivated. The profit splits have been scaled up proportionately, the buying power is the same.
 
50k is worthwhile but it is smoke and mirrors.. you have a $500 daily loss limit and lose 2k and you go back to sim. They are only risking 2k on you which was the same as before.

At $500 loss limit, you will be able to trade a max of 1 to 2 contracts and will be able to make about 7k to 10k your first year max which is a 60% to 100% return.

To be taken seriously, they would need to provide a 10k to 15k warning limit and a $2,000 to $4,000 daily loss limit.
 
btw when I say 50k is worthwhile, I mean if that is what they gave you.
Also, my estimates are assuming you are a real superb day trader and able to take some overnight risk too.

It is really silly to say they give you 50k and put you back on a sim when your down 4% . No serious firm would entertain that. At 10% or 20% then maybe...

I'm looking at it from the perspective if they gave me 50k then I'd be there trying. But from the perspective of okay what you need to make a living with a profit split would be a lot more.

Realistically to trade for a worthwhile living you'd need around 200k. This would give you a return of 60k per year @ 30% which very few people can maintain over any length of time. Think you can do more then double that? Fine, go for 70% and your still only making 140k per year, good but not getting rich.

With a profit split, you need to make even more.. around 2x.

Of course, realistically it will be hard to margin beyond 5k-8k per contract. Even a really preposterous goal like making 1 point per day @ 10 contracts @ 7k per car would require 70k.

Think I'm wrong? No matter, anyone who honestly feels they could do something with 2k would be still be better off to save it up and make 100% of profits.
 
heres a simple way to see if a firm is OK. search google for "trader firm name linkedin" and see if anyone even works there and what kind of people they are.
 
BTW if Patak is serious.. and I know he is not because the 2k is probably all he has from his sign ups. I will challenge him to an open emini trading contest.
 
Quote from Lucias:

Think I'm wrong? No matter, anyone who honestly feels they could do something with 2k would be still be better off to save it up and make 100% of profits.
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What product can you trade and which firm for only 2k?
 
Ok,ok, I think some of you guys are getting returns on futures mixed up with stocks....Futures are extremely leveraged financial instruments and you never actually buy them but put up a margin to trade them and gain the profits or losses on those instruments. Take for example ES(emini S&P), and lets take it day by day...

For every contract of ES, you make or lose $50 per point...
So if you can make 4 points on the S&P everyday, that's $200 profit(-Commison) every single day, n thats just for one contract folks!

So according to Patak, at the beginning you will have a position limit of 5, but even if you start off just trading 2 contracts a day(and maybe scale in 2 more when ur up on a trade), you can literally make at least $400 in daily profits(which is also a requirement to pass the Combine)....

so monthly ur profits should be 20(trading days) x $400=$8000
After 60/40 profit split you will take around $4800 every month....

I mean look, as a college student with no Cap, job, or income... The above specifications look quite attractive, so I will definitely enter their training program in which if you make $2000 in a week, you will be entered to their combine without having to make a deposit...
 
You can day trade the ES mini future for only $500 margin. Patak gives traders 2k, you thus need only 2.5k to have what they offer.

This is not realistic, of course. You need about an absolute minimum of around 5k to trade 1 contract. At 5k per contract, you are margin 12x.

The biggest misconception traders have is that they can make even any money. The truth is that the statistics demonstrate that it is difficult enough to break even.
 
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