Patak, math and opportunity....

The one thing I am not clear on is that if I want to trade both ES and CL, how many of each contracts do I need to trade to pass the combine? For example, I know their is a target I need to hit for overall profitable $ amount, but how am I allowed to structure my trades. Since some days, ES is much more easy to trade than CL.

Like today there was a setup in ES and none in CL.
 
Quote from oraclewizard77:

The one thing I am not clear on is that if I want to trade both ES and CL, how many of each contracts do I need to trade to pass the combine? For example, I know their is a target I need to hit for overall profitable $ amount, but how am I allowed to structure my trades. Since some days, ES is much more easy to trade than CL.

Like today there was a setup in ES and none in CL.
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There are no volume requirements. Trade as much or as little of either contract as you want.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

So now you are willing to give up 90% of your profits? :eek:
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How come? If I got it correctly, those guys offer a 50-50% profit share. The trader doesn't give up anything...

But I understand your concern. Your boys suddenly have competition now. :)

Quote from Haloperidol:

IMO, the best way to attempt this, is to wait for a high probability day, and start the combine then, with maximum position, and be done in 3 or 4 days, then scalp back and forth for minimal position and profit till one meets the %Winning days rule...
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I agree, that would be my strategy too. Only 10 ES pts needed, if a nice move is captured, it can be done on the high probability first day and the rest is just playing for the rules...

But they would probably ask you for a repeat....
 
Quote from Pekelo:

How come? If I got it correctly, those guys offer a 50-50% profit share. The trader doesn't give up anything...

.
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Huh? Maybe I misunderstood. They said they charge 2/20 in which the trader gets 50% of both of those fees. So in other words, the trader gets 1/10 is which fairly common. You better re-read that. That is how I interpreted that.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Huh? Maybe I misunderstood. They said they charge 2/20 in which the trader gets 50% of both of those fees. So in other words, the trader gets 1/10 is which fairly common. You better re-read that. That is how I interpreted that.
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Quote from mickson:

Thanks, 2% management and 20% performance fee (no hurdle) will be charged on funds, this will be shared 50:50 with RAPA (Pty) Ltd.
Performance fees will naturally be subject to a high water mark.
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Quote from Maverick74:

They said they charge 2/20 in which the trader gets 50% of both of those fees. So in other words, the trader gets 1/10 is which fairly common. You better re-read that. That is how I interpreted that.
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I am not exactly sure how rapa means the sharing (I thought the 50-50 was the whole profit), could be the way how you interpret it. But this rises another question:

If 10% of the profits for the trader is fairly common, how the hell can Patak afford to give out up to 80% of the profits for the trader? And why would any backer use them, if it is such a bad deal (by industry standards) for them?*


*I actually had this question about a month ago
 
Quote from Pekelo:

I am not exactly sure how rapa means the sharing (I thought the 50-50 was the whole profit), could be the way how you interpret it. But this rises another question:

If 10% of the profits for the trader is fairly common, how the hell can Patak afford to give out up to 80% of the profits for the trader? And why would any backer use them, if it is such a bad deal (by industry standards) for them?*


*I actually had this question about a month ago
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No, you are confused. Rapa is a capital allocator, not a backer. There is a HUGE difference. Capital allocators usually split their fees 50/50. Although usually it's only for the first few years. Rapa is a lifetime split. Allocators are basically charging you for providing a service. Managing a fund and doing a backing deal such as Patak's are two totally different animals. They both have their pros and their cons. The reason people use an allocator such as Rapa is because they don't have any money in their fund structure and it's very hard to find investors who want to be "first in". So you use an allocator or "third party marketer" as they are usually called.

What Patak is doing is the old floor model 50/50 split. In their case, it's higher, but same difference. I know the capital allocator deals well as I've worked with several over the years.
 
Quote from Laissez Faire:
----Did you miss the fact the TST offers custom combines?
----doing...Combine...with the only change being a reduced profit target.
----they tightened the maximum drawdown from $4500 to $3750.
----fine with that....
----can't afford drawdown anyway....
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1) No. I had hoped my previous wording would have made that obviously apparent. :cool:
2) I was curious what TST would want in exchange for the "customization" you requested. :)
 
Quote from nazzdack:

2) I was curious what TST would want in exchange for the "customization" you requested. :)
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The price is the same. Unless I missed something, the only difference is what I already mentioned: A maximum drawdown of $3750 instead of $4500.
 
Quote from oraclewizard77:

By Thurs of the 3rd week of each month, you switch to next month's contract. So for example, I switched today to Jan from Dec.

Here's the best way. Save template saves all of your indicators. Use instrument manager to add the next month's contract. Create a chart for that month. Delete your old chart. Then load template to reload all of your indicators.

Also, you can check the volume to see when the new month is starting to get more volume.

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/crude-oil/light-sweet-crude.html
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Excellent, thanks.
 
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