Pastor: GOP may be downplaying Palin's religious beliefs

Quote from bigdavediode:

How, if we're not there? Pakistan's going to invade the US?



Well that's Obama. Same exact position.

How do you figure we're not in Pakistan? We've been bombing them for days. Obama has used the code words "Pakistani border" in recent public remarks about Afghanistan including his interview with O'Reilly

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...troop-crossborder-raids-from-Afghanistan.html

Bad news here.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PAKISTAN_US?SITE=CODER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


And on Iraq. Get a clue. Opposing the surge was NOT supporting our troops. The surge saved lives and Obama is CLEARLY paying the price in diminished popularity by not recognizing that. Coming clean after the fact is just 20/20 hindsight.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

40% of wage earners ALREADY have no Federal tax liability. Fewer and fewer people pay for the Federal government yet more and more people have a stake in the Federal government. It's a danger going forward. Income searching capital knows no border. As much of the industrialized world is moving to smaller Central governments: Conservatives are winning seats in Canada, U.K., France, Germany-we're still moving left. On top of it we have a shitty demographic. Subsidizing a student in Minnesota has a payoff, subsidizing 3 Mexican kids in L.A. only so they can drop out and join a gang is NOT what's going to allow us to compete going forward. Our cities are broke and Washington no matter WHO is in charge keeps sucking resources into it's black hole.
Bush just happened to be the wrong conservative stock to own.



The fact is our country needs money, and desperately. As Obama said, there is no free lunch. Another fact is that the top 5% own 50% of all the wealth. They are the only ones flourishing ( thanks in no small part to a rich favoring tax system) and who can afford to pay extra taxes. The middle and lower classes of our country are what's suffering, they're making less and less money and all the while costs are going up and on top of that their money is now worth less due to inflation. They don't have the money to give. It's not a matter of what's fair or what works in a great economy, its about what we have to do to keep this from spiraling out of control. I'm conservative by nature, I believe in free markets and I believe in the gov keeping its nose out of our business and businesses, but I also recognize that lack of regulation and "letting the markets work" is a huge part of what got us into this mess in the first place. I realize that there is much work to be done in education, regulation, and alternative energy...work that will cost money but is essential to out nations future. I would love for all that revenue to come via taxes from a booming economy, but right now that's unrealistic, and it has to come from somewhere. The also believe in a small central gov, but I also see how absolutely essential the central gov is when adverting, or dealing with a crisis (eg FDR's new deal). We cant go on doing what we've been doing as expect our economy to simply fix itself, and alternate energy/war efforts to pay for themselves.
 
Think about it.

The Federal government had no business being in the depositor insurance business much less in the mortgage under writing business. Much of this stupidity goes back to FDR. He was akin to the first naked put seller.

Likewise the Federal government has no business being in the energy development business. Do you think there's ANY shortage of global capital looking to profit from efficient alt energies? Battery cars, cleaner nuclear ect.

The government probably should stay out of the education business. Anyone here impressed by the state of our urban public schools? And one look at how poorly socialized health care is working in Canada and Europe should be a warning as well. Imagine if Canada's woeful system was all of a sudden swamped by illegal Mexicans and less than health conscious American blacks?

We keep INVENTING crisis. Instead of just sucking it up-heck ALLOW home prices to cave 60%-we continue to make half ass efforts to micro manage every little thing. It's an outdated model. It's broke. It's unfixable. Darwin For President.

Quote from jonbig04:

The fact is our country needs money, and desperately. As Obama said, there is no free lunch. Another fact is that the top 5% own 50% of all the wealth. They are the only ones flourishing ( thanks in no small part to a rich favoring tax system) and who can afford to pay extra taxes. The middle and lower classes of our country are what's suffering, they're making less and less money and all the while costs are going up and on top of that their money is now worth less due to inflation. They don't have the money to give. It's not a matter of what's fair or what works in a great economy, its about what we have to do to keep this from spiraling out of control. I'm conservative by nature, I believe in free markets and I believe in the gov keeping its nose out of our business and businesses, but I also recognize that lack of regulation and "letting the markets work" is a huge part of what got us into this mess in the first place. I realize that there is much work to be done in education, regulation, and alternative energy...work that will cost money but is essential to out nations future. I would love for all that revenue to come via taxes from a booming economy, but right now that's unrealistic, and it has to come from somewhere. The also believe in a small central gov, but I also see how absolutely essential the central gov is when adverting, or dealing with a crisis (eg FDR's new deal). We cant go on doing what we've been doing as expect our economy to simply fix itself, and alternate energy/war efforts to pay for themselves.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:
Huh? What does disparity have to do with it? Nothing. Explain how.[/b]

Because the lower incomes don't pay taxes. The more who don't pay taxes, the lower their average incomes.

You're the one who is wrong. Polls indicate the Conservatives will hold over 180 seats after the 10/14 election. A decisive majority.

This is called "counting your chickens." And if they do win, they are similar to the Democrats in philosophy.

Same with France and the UK.

How about sending that Mexican kid to the school of his choice at a reasonable cost instead of creating segregated public schools.

Would you like a Ford with that dodge? Your argument is that Mexican kids will just join gangs and therefore should not be subsidized. The reality is that some people do and some people don't. Unless you have some psychic method of deciding who will...

The CPS is 11% non Latino white. Male blacks drop out at 55%. Liberals bitched about the need for forced integration through busing and they got their wish. They created urban, public schools so dangerous that there's now no whites schools left to integrate with.

Ahh, I see the method of deciding -- skin color.

Taxpaying white families have voted with their feet. To the suburbs they go.

It's like you're out of a time machine from decades ago. In fact, whites are moving to city centers.

http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=264510ca-2170-49cd-bad5-a0be122ac1a9

The emerging revolution can already be sensed. Wealthy empty nesters and the gays who've made up the slack in developing the “new” cities are FREAKING OUT about paying excessive education taxes when they themselves are childless. Perhaps Sen. Change can institute a Federal tax for education. I'm sure folks in Iowa would be stoked to help pay the 80K salary of an illiterate Detroit teacher.

Not quite. "Introduced by Rep. George Cushingberry on May 15, 2007, to authorize salaries for Detroit School Board members equal to 90 percent of what Wayne County Commission members are paid, plus a pension benefit equal to 90 percent of commissioners’ pension. Commissioners get an annual salary of $68,767."

And frankly, if you would teach school in Detroit, you deserve it.

A bullshit, parched Obama lawyer response.

No, it's actually a fact. Cities overall are not bankrupt and are paying their bills. Again, it's like you've dropped out of a time machine from 1970's New York.

And you wonder why plain speaking Palin is killing you. No the cities themselves aren't broke. Only their school systems, transit authorities and public employee pension systems.

Where did you get this misinformation? For starters, the polls are still showing Obama with a small, marginal lead over McCain with or without Palin. You can see that here:

http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

Opinions are like assholes...

Well it's more than an opinion as it's buttressed by facts, such as the national debt and military adventurism.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Think about it.

The Federal government had no business being in the depositor insurance business much less in the mortgage under writing business. Much of this stupidity goes back to FDR. He was akin to the first naked put seller.


Ha! I wish the government HAD been there to look over the shoulder of various large financial companies that were leveraged 50 to 1, buying up debt with debt, financing anyone with a pulse (I worked in that industry)...all of which led to credit crisis/ housing collapse stock market falling causing interest rates to be dropped resulting in inflation out the wazoo...I wish someone was there to regulate that shit before it happened.


The government probably should stay out of the education business. Anyone here impressed by the state of our urban public schools? And one look at how poorly socialized health care is working in Canada and Europe should be a warning as well. Imagine if Canada's woeful system was all of a sudden swamped by illegal Mexicans and less than health conscious American blacks?

You seem to be equating "business" with subsidy. Those school are shitty because they lack the funds to create a better learning environment (it wasnt that long ago that I was there). I think that alot of the problem has to do with the minority mentality that stems from who knows what and is made worse by welfare, but that doesnt mean we should do away with all public assistance.


We keep INVENTING crisis. Instead of just sucking it up-heck ALLOW home prices to cave 60%-we continue to make half ass efforts to micro manage every little thing. It's an outdated model. It's broke. It's unfixable. Darwin For President.

It's not unfixable. I don't know how to fix it, but I don't believe in simply allowing failure either. There is a lot of people who lost alot of money when the market nose dived, me included. However that was a risk we took and the gov shouldnt be expected to bail us out, but the home is also the single largest asset a typical family has, of course the gov is going to do all it can to stop it from depreciating 60%
 
Quote from jonbig04:

It's not that black and white. He's raising income tax for the top 5%, lowering taxes for the bottom 95%, raising capital gains tax, lowering estate taxes....I would say its safe to say he's raising and lowering them haha.

However my point is that he's not starting some class warfare. Income tax wise, its not class warfare unless you consider 95% of us 1 class and the other 5% another class. Capital gains wise, I THINK he's raising them for everybody (with the exception of small biz) so that obviously isnt class warfare either.

With respect, this is a load of crap.

First of all, he is definitely not lowering taxes for the "bottom 95%." He has proposed reclassifying welfare payments as tax refunds, even though the recipients didn't pay any taxes to begin with. That's apparently how he comes up with a "reduction."

He definitely is not for lowering the estate tax. That is a big target for class warfare democrats. It is scheduled to be eliminated under the Bush tax cuts, but dems want to keep it in force. It is a big item for small businesses, farmers, etc, not just for Bill Gates. The super rich have ways of avoiding it. The semi rich do not.

Regarding class warfare, I don't know what else you call trying to buy votes by promising to take money from one group, the so-called rich, and handing it out to another. And justifying it because they can "afford it." Maybe you have room in your house to allow a welfare family to move in with you. You can "afford it." How's that sound to you?

In Obama's marxist world, cap gains tax are the ultimate form of class warfare. Who owns stock and property? Not the people screaming for white blood at Rev. Wright's church. Actually a lot of rather ordinary people will be hurt through their pension funds, etc but no one thinks that far when a demagogue like Obama is shouting populist nonsense.
 
Quote from bigdavediode:

Because the lower incomes don't pay taxes. The more who don't pay taxes, the lower their average incomes.

Try again. you're getting no where.


This is called "counting your chickens." And if they do win, they are similar to the Democrats in philosophy.

Same with France and the UK.


An hour ago you didn't even know conservatives are prohibitive favorites in those elections but now you're going to tell me you know the ideology of those emerging conservative leaders? Yes the afore mentioned countries are socially liberal (except France) but the groundswell in those places is toward fiscal conservatism, i.e. less taxes. If folks were happy then there'd be no change.

Would you like a Ford with that dodge? Your argument is that Mexican kids will just join gangs and therefore should not be subsidized. The reality is that some people do and some people don't. Unless you have some psychic method of deciding who will...

Ahh, I see the method of deciding -- skin color.

No I could just be like other conservatives and say throw them out. The opposition to vouchers from libs is two-fold. Preserve public salaries and de-program kids from religion. God forbid L.A. to send Mexican kids to a Catholic school at 5k a year when they can spend 15k a year on an inferior product. You can stick your head in the sand all you want but urban public school systems are DYING and it's getting WORSE each second. Just this week Miami fired their respected schools chief because he couldn't get the budget on track.

"But this week the school board effectively fired Crew by voting to buy out the remainder of his contract, with critics saying the hype never matched Crew's actual deeds leading the nation's fourth-largest school district. The district's $5.5 billion budget is in shambles and there is a racial undertone in the nasty and sometimes comical war between Crew, an African-American, and the mostly Cuban-American board."


It's like you're out of a time machine from decades ago. In fact, whites are moving to city centers.

http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=264510ca-2170-49cd-bad5-a0be122ac1a9

For one I LIVE IN A CITY CENTER-and two you better read the article you linked. Except for Atlanta and non-U.S. Vancouver long on hype, short on facts. I ALREADY said-white EMPTY NESTERS are moving into the cities. White AND Black FAMILIES are LEAVING. Why? Schools. The article talks about Atlanta's shift. It's a city I visit a few times a year when commuting from Miami to Chicago. Yes single whites and OLDER whites (those WITHOUT kids) are moving in-the people WITH kids (mostly black) are leaving. In Chicago ethnic white families are exiting faster than they're being replaced by yuppie childless whites. The recent census estimate had Chicago's pct of whites at it's lowest in history. Same thing with the recent Miami data as well as L.A. These demographic shifts will create IMMENSE strains on these systems.


Not quite. "Introduced by Rep. George Cushingberry on May 15, 2007, to authorize salaries for Detroit School Board members equal to 90 percent of what Wayne County Commission members are paid, plus a pension benefit equal to 90 percent of commissioners’ pension. Commissioners get an annual salary of $68,767."

And frankly, if you would teach school in Detroit, you deserve it.

do you have any idea what kind of money that is? In a city that's broke? In a city that you can buy a nice home in for 70K? And why is teaching in Detroit such a drag? Forget it I already know. Another judgmental lefty who has his OWN prejudice remarks to make. :D


No, it's actually a fact. Cities overall are not bankrupt and are paying their bills. Again, it's like you've dropped out of a time machine from 1970's New York.

Now it's you bs'ing without footnotes. Here's the second wealthiest metro in America: "San Francisco faces a $338 million budget shortfall for next year, which is the result, in part, of a projected $62 million cost overrun in overtime expenditures this year and new police and firefighter contracts that will cost the city $32 million more next year."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/29/MN7OVQOPK.DTL



Where did you get this misinformation? For starters, the polls are still showing Obama with a small, marginal lead over McCain with or without Palin. You can see that here:

http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

Intrade is THE poll. Money talks bullshit walks. McCain is up by 3 plus.



Well it's more than an opinion as it's buttressed by facts, such as the national debt and military adventurism. [/B]
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

With respect, this is a load of crap.

First of all, he is definitely not lowering taxes for the "bottom 95%." He has proposed reclassifying welfare payments as tax refunds, even though the recipients didn't pay any taxes to begin with. That's apparently how he comes up with a "reduction."


Thanks for the "with respect part" :p
Anyways, to be clear, are you saying that, under Obama's tax plan, middle income people won't pay less in income tax? If so, you are simply mistaken. Without typing out the whole plan: he does intend to cut taxes on 95% of workers and families ($500 workers, $1,000 families), also tax cuts would include seniors, homeowners, uninsured etc. He also advocates eliminating capital gains taxes for small businesses and the cutting of certain corporate taxes.

He definitely is not for lowering the estate tax. That is a big target for class warfare democrats. It is scheduled to be eliminated under the Bush tax cuts, but dems want to keep it in force. It is a big item for small businesses, farmers, etc, not just for Bill Gates. The super rich have ways of avoiding it. The semi rich do not.

Once again, you are mistaken. From factcheck.org: "The claim that Obama proposes to "restore the inheritance tax" is also false, as are the claims that McCain would impose zero tax and that Bush "repealed" it. McCain and Obama both would retain a reduced version of the estate tax, as it is correctly called, though McCain would reduce it by more"

Regarding class warfare, I don't know what else you call trying to buy votes by promising to take money from one group, the so-called rich, and handing it out to another. And justifying it because they can "afford it." Maybe you have room in your house to allow a welfare family to move in with you. You can "afford it." How's that sound to you?

You are obviously over simplifying a complex problem. The top 5% of this country hold 50% of the wealth. There is no free lunch, and we have to pay for the programs needed to move our country forward. I'll admit, the "rich can afford it" argument sounds weak, however that because you make it so. The crux of the argument is this :the lower and middle class (95% of our entire country) are making less and less money, paying more and more in bills all while our dollar is getting devalued. Simply put, they can't afford to pay. Like a lot of others on ET, you have this rosy view of our economy. Of course we would love for more jobs to be created so we can lower taxes and still grow as a country. The fact is that's NOT the situation we're in right now. We need money. Where is all the money? The top 5%. What's funny is that people are acting like this is unprecedented while under Obamas plan "no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut."

In Obama's marxist world, cap gains tax are the ultimate form of class warfare. Who owns stock and property? Not the people screaming for white blood at Rev. Wright's church. Actually a lot of rather ordinary people will be hurt through their pension funds, etc but no one thinks that far when a demagogue like Obama is shouting populist nonsense.

Once again you are operating on false information. From factcheck.org: "Furthermore, he has said only couples making $250,000 or more (or, his policy advisers tell us, singles making more than $200,000) would pay the higher capital gains rate. That means the large majority of persons who pay capital gains taxes would see no increase at all."

You are suffering from the same mentality you are raging against, just for the other side. In this post alone you have posted false information just so you could prove your point. Obama has his share of worshipers who don't think, however, judging by your post, so does mccain
:)
 
Thank's AAA. I'm tired of typing/responding to this stupidity. At least it keeps me from getting short ES.........
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

With respect, this is a load of crap.

First of all, he is definitely not lowering taxes for the "bottom 95%." He has proposed reclassifying welfare payments as tax refunds, even though the recipients didn't pay any taxes to begin with. That's apparently how he comes up with a "reduction."

He definitely is not for lowering the estate tax. That is a big target for class warfare democrats. It is scheduled to be eliminated under the Bush tax cuts, but dems want to keep it in force. It is a big item for small businesses, farmers, etc, not just for Bill Gates. The super rich have ways of avoiding it. The semi rich do not.

Regarding class warfare, I don't know what else you call trying to buy votes by promising to take money from one group, the so-called rich, and handing it out to another. And justifying it because they can "afford it." Maybe you have room in your house to allow a welfare family to move in with you. You can "afford it." How's that sound to you?

In Obama's marxist world, cap gains tax are the ultimate form of class warfare. Who owns stock and property? Not the people screaming for white blood at Rev. Wright's church. Actually a lot of rather ordinary people will be hurt through their pension funds, etc but no one thinks that far when a demagogue like Obama is shouting populist nonsense.
 
regarding the topic of this thread

What are the Democrats doing regarding OBAMA's religious beliefs. Remember, his pastor - Rev. Wright? and his nonsense nad TV interviews?

Somehow, Obama could sit in the man's church for 20 years, and "not get offended" until he was running for the presidency?
 
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