Passing the computer snappy scalps only

[Bugenhagen]

Crap shoot. If your trade didn't work, it didn't work. That's it. You think the market gives a damn about your trade and that it will turn just because you're averaging? Think again.

No I don't think the market will turn because I'm averaging. I'll address this because it is so reminiscent of the absolutist statements my friend makes. The reason I started this thread was to push back on things he says in this manner

Whether a trade worked or not depends on what the parameters of the trade are.

So say I have in mind to go 10 long, I could wait for something that looks like solid confirmation that everyone else can see and boots in with 10 on a single entry. When xyz stars align you may take a hold for target or stop kind of rule, whatever.

However in the time before this spring to the next area, there are pre-confirmation trades/setups one might have that also have proven profitability. In a pre-confirmation entry, averaging in can very much make sense as these can be about a zone where you expect price to turn rather than with confirmation springing off a very narrow range.

How many contracts you deploy for pre-confirmation entry is may be completely dependent on how things are shaping up. If you also get a reliable confirmation to enter as well then great but if that fails to break, you have a nice scalp which:
a. Keeps you busy in the trading day, something to do waiting for a breakout and more profitable use of time than browsing ET.
b. These add up as you get better at it.
c. It diversifys your trading and smooths the equity curve.

I have several different accounts for for more ad-hoc vs quite fixed setup trades. If you don't measure you can't manage etc.

You are only "adding to a loser" or a "crap shoot" when you are clearly under water or about to be and now praying for a lucky save.

I let my bots manage inter-day swing/position trades. Following the gradual rise of the indices, getting out on pullbacks and back in. Inter-day Sunday opening gap closes, whatever. I make good money there. I then have my manual trading which is largely intraday. How many types of trade I'm taking depends on appetite and time but diversifying has worked for me financially and from a risk management & lifestyle/mental health perspective.

 

[bpr]

I was travelling to the country place late last night and pondering whats up with people so afraid of limit orders slipping.

Ok, in writing I use a "disaster stop (limit)" intending to mean using limit order as a stop but of course it looks like a "stop limit" which is a different kind of order. As is a stop order.

Not a Stop Limit (hybrid market/limit with an offset) which can slip if things get crazy.

It has been a while since I used Ninja's default Chart Trader panel & right click on chart to place a trade etc., I had my own coded ages back.

I don't care about my disaster limit order being visible as it is far away from the more nearby price retail stops.

And yes, price needs to push through that target level, fill on touch is not needed, this is not a problem at all.

And yet again, I'm not recommending anyone trade futures like this, just showing someone something.

What ??
You are using limit order for STOPLOSS ? Not possible.
Your entry and exit both can be limit but StopLoss will always have to be STOP market(SLM) or STOP limit.
You can not have limit order for stoploss for any trading position.
This is very basic stuff.

either I am misunderstanding what you said above or you are full of shit.

 

[Bugenhagen]

What ??
You are using limit order for STOPLOSS ? Not possible.
Your entry and exit both can be limit but StopLoss will always have to be STOP market(SLM) or STOP limit.
You can not have limit order for stoploss for any trading position.
This is very basic stuff.

either I am misunderstanding what you said above or you are full of shit.

Yep, I explained before.

I phrased it poorly from habit in a group where we were used to call any order type that gets you out is your "stop". It is unfortunate that on this forum the OPs can't edit their first post whenever they want as other boards have enabled and no matter how many times you post a clarification, people miss it as the pages roll on.

I was travelling to the country place late last night and pondering whats up with people so afraid of limit orders slipping.

Ok, in writing I use a "disaster stop (limit)" intending to mean using limit order as a stop but of course it looks like a "stop limit" which is a different kind of order. As is a stop order.

Not a Stop Limit (hybrid market/limit with an offset) which can slip if things get crazy.

It has been a while since I used Ninja's default Chart Trader panel & right click on chart to place a trade etc., I had my own coded ages back.

I don't care about my disaster limit order being visible as it is far away from the more nearby price retail stops.

And yes, price needs to push through that target level, fill on touch is not needed, this is not a problem at all.

And yet again, I'm not recommending anyone trade futures like this, just showing someone something.

 

[Overnight]

What ??
You are using limit order for STOPLOSS ? Not possible.
Your entry and exit both can be limit but StopLoss will always have to be STOP market(SLM) or STOP limit.
You can not have limit order for stoploss for any trading position.
This is very basic stuff...

Sure you can. See my post above. Ninja software even has a toggle for it. As posted above.

 

[Overnight]

Here's a stop loss market order...

Here's how it looks on the chart...

Here's a stop loss limit order...

Here's how it looks on the chart.

Care to revise your statements, bpr?

 

[Bugenhagen]

We are falling between chairs due to lingo and perhaps slightly different understandings that say stock vs futures traders etc. can have.

As said, it is common for traders to refer to whatever they use to protect them from loss as a stop however, beyond the generic notion these are also the names of exchange order types with their own specific characteristics.

As I always understood it a StopLimit it is not sent to the exchange until the trigger is reached whereas a straight Limit is with the exchange and on the order book from inception.

Also stock traders who normally deal with opening gaps are worried about price opening above or below which would not be a worry for a futures trader unless holding intraday and over the weekend. In addition stock traders have to be concerned about partial fills and how this adds commissions when a futures trader just pays for each contract.

Mixing up sheep and cows is a bad business I'm just finishing my notes for a talk at the university tomorrow on intraday futures and if some bugger starts on about options, ETFs, Stocks or anything but Futures, I have extra marker pens to throw at his head.

 

[Overnight]

...I'm just finishing my notes for a talk at the university tomorrow on intraday futures and if some bugger starts on about options, ETFs, Stocks or anything but Futures, I have extra marker pens to throw at his head.

What about an option on a future of a stock ETF? That would mean markers at my face? hehe.

Anyways, no worries. bpr is not hearing what you are saying. I do get it. Your phraseology is not bad or "off". It is bpr who is in error here.

 

[Bugenhagen]

What about an option on a future of a stock ETF? That would mean markers at my face? hehe.

Anyways, no worries. bpr is not hearing what you are saying. I do get it. Your phraseology is not bad or "off". It is bpr who is in error here.

I think I grasp an angle of what BPR was saying though all I really know is it all goes tower of Babel on ET very often as the pages rack up If the OP retained the ability to edit the opening post, it would be helpful.

 

[Overnight]

I think I grasp an angle of what BPR was saying though all I really know is it all goes tower of Babel on ET very often as the pages rack up If the OP retained the ability to edit the opening post, it would be helpful.

You can edit your stuff for up to one hour after posting. I asked @Baron about this restriction, and he gave a convincing argument as to why it should be that way. (It was some time ago, I forget the reason). If you need an edit, just send a PM to the mods, and they can do it for you. Like @Magna . He is hot to trot on those bits (Mag-MA), and rarely sleeps.

 

[Bugenhagen]

You can edit your stuff for up to one hour after posting. I asked @Baron about this restriction, and he gave a convincing argument as to why it should be that way. (It was some time ago, I forget the reason). If you need an edit, just send a PM to the mods, and they can do it for you. Like @Magna . He is hot to trot on those bits (Mag-MA), and rarely sleeps.

I still think it is beneficial for the first post only to be unlimited edit time. In this case, meh, this journal has done it's job anyway.

Plus in preparing my slides for risk planning and how three things can and do go wrong at once I found a clip, which finally explains this meme to me. Twas a mystery... haha.