Paper Trading Goals

SimpleMeLike said:
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i am learning that it is really is 80% emotional and 20% trading skill.
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You are learning. The "emotional" aspect makes up 80% of trading, yet, paper trading is not capable of simulating the real-time emotions that dynamically occur in real-time when tangible or other forms of actual risk/reward exist. hmmm

And so the next question is, how does paper trading assist with the 20% "skill" portion? Learning platform features and specific manual machinations (ie when and where to click the mouse) is not "skill". And looking at a chart or reading a price ladder in demo mode or live mode is the same. (datafeed difference is not being discussed) . So what skill is being taught?

Deaddog's idea is not bad... use paper trading to see if you can follow the rules THAT YOU CREATED. But how long does that take? A day or two? weeks? months? longer? And if you change rules do you start again? WHY? How would changing rules (that you create) affect your ability to follow those same rules? Are changes fitted to offset abilities or lack of? I'll bet you can answer the question right now: CAN YOU FOLLOW RULES THAT YOU CREATE? YES OR NO. ANSWER RIGHT NOW! If your answer is anything but yes, there are mental/emotional issues going on that paper trading can not fix. Red or black, shirts or skins, gun to your head will get you past or point you elsewhere.
 
watching ,spotting and seeing repetitions over and over , in the midst of the rest of what's going on, can be found whether trading, paper trading or just watching, takes a lot of practice playing wheres waldo in the crowd before you get semi skilled at it, no sense doing it with real dough, once you do see setups that work a majority of time, you can eliminate everything else, then the emotional negatives will be minimized when you recognize and learn to patiently wait for setups
, whilst learning to spot setups, you can get a head start on your psyche. if more people did this ,there would be less shrinks
forgive all your mistakes, forgive all others mistakes
body can't hold waste,head shouldn't either, if you practice emptying your head as often as you empty your body,it wont be long before it becomes a habit, a lifestyle change
at some point it makes it's way into your trading, not carrying over the ups and downs into the next trade, basing your decisions on the market, minus your emotions. at this point you are more in tune with your opponent, the market has no emotions
 
tiddlywinks said:
You are learning. The "emotional" aspect makes up 80% of trading, yet, paper trading is not capable of simulating the real-time emotions that dynamically occur in real-time when tangible or other forms of actual risk/reward exist. hmmm

And so the next question is, how does paper trading assist with the 20% "skill" portion? Learning platform features and specific manual machinations (ie when and where to click the mouse) is not "skill". And looking at a chart or reading a price ladder in demo mode or live mode is the same. (datafeed difference is not being discussed) . So what skill is being taught?

Deaddog's idea is not bad... use paper trading to see if you can follow the rules THAT YOU CREATED. But how long does that take? A day or two? weeks? months? longer? And if you change rules do you start again? WHY? How would changing rules (that you create) affect your ability to follow those same rules? Are changes fitted to offset abilities or lack of? I'll bet you can answer the question right now: CAN YOU FOLLOW RULES THAT YOU CREATE? YES OR NO. ANSWER RIGHT NOW! If your answer is anything but yes, there are mental/emotional issues going on that paper trading can not fix. Red or black, shirts or skins, gun to your head will get you past or point you elsewhere.
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Yeah but you use paper to work on a method then go Live when you've got that working, take your losses and expect them so keep them small ie $100 per month, try hard Live, if the $100 goes or your taking losses back to paper.

Repeat for 10 years until profitable live, easy!!

If you try or don't, in 10years time you'll be the same age, but crack it and you'll be a lot lot lot richer!
 
Turveyd said:
Yeah but you use paper to work on a method then go Live when you've got that working, take your losses and expect them so keep them small ie $100 per month, try hard Live, if the $100 goes or your taking losses back to paper.

Repeat for 10 years until profitable live, easy!!

If you try or don't, in 10years time you'll be the same age, but crack it and you'll be a lot lot lot richer!
More...

This part of the conversation is/was about using paper trading to determine if you can follow rules that you create. Period. Not if a "method" is successful. The OP has learned through his own undertakings and admission that trading follows the 80/20 rule. 80% emotion, 20% skill. Myself and others have attempted to explain that paper trading capabilities as an aid to either "emotions" or "skill" as being minimal at best.

You are using paper trading "to work on a method then go Live when you've got that working." Not only that, you've told us how long it will take you... "Repeat for 10 years until profitable live". Good luck to you.
 
tiddlywinks said:
This part of the conversation is/was about using paper trading to determine if you can follow rules that you create. Period. Not if a "method" is successful. The OP has learned through his own undertakings and admission that trading follows the 80/20 rule. 80% emotion, 20% skill. Myself and others have attempted to explain that paper trading capabilities as an aid to either "emotions" or "skill" as being minimal at best.

You are using paper trading "to work on a method then go Live when you've got that working." Not only that, you've told us how long it will take you... "Repeat for 10 years until profitable live". Good luck to you.
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Well depends on the person, doesn't work for me, Demo trader billionaire, I've barely bothered with demo accept above.

That's why I think, to keep costs down ie losses, then you have to use demo get demo profitable, go live find your issues ( be them mental, or method issues ) , back to demo and repeat many times.

I've already put my 10 years in and currently profitable. ( this is subject to change without notice )


My issues, where / are all mental, I can't follow my rules or hold long enough while in profit, it's always get to +5 take it, while risking 30, cause I don't want to risk taking the loss, getting there though.
 
Turveyd said:
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I've already put my 10 years in and currently profitable. ( this is subject to change without notice )

My issues, where / are all mental, I can't follow my rules or hold long enough while in profit, it's always get to +5 take it, while risking 30, cause I don't want to risk taking the loss, getting there though.
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If paper trading (on and off?) for 10 years has not provided you the insight to "fix" these issues (can't follow rules, can't hold, aversion to loss) why would it now? What are you doing differently (regarding paper trading) that makes you say you are "getting there"?
 
Turveyd said:
Well depends on the person, doesn't work for me, Demo trader billionaire, I've barely bothered with demo accept above.

That's why I think, to keep costs down ie losses, then you have to use demo get demo profitable, go live find your issues ( be them mental, or method issues ) , back to demo and repeat many times.

I've already put my 10 years in and currently profitable. ( this is subject to change without notice )


My issues, where / are all mental, I can't follow my rules or hold long enough while in profit, it's always get to +5 take it, while risking 30, cause I don't want to risk taking the loss, getting there though.
More...

Thanks,

Everyone has good points and I am taking to into considerations all the above. After taking real money losses, I now I understand the importance of trading paper. The way to get better is to practice practice practice IMO and I will practice with paper til I am consistent. The argument that trading with paper is not "real emotions" is dependent on the trader. I have 4 people I discuss my daily trading outcome per day and I don't want to let them down. They pushing me to do better. So the emtions are real cause I set a goal to myself when I can go live with real money. And until I reach that goal, I will stay paper. Its just that simple. I am not hurting for income, so I got time. I just to be discipline and gain some confident in what I am doing.
 
tiddlywinks said:
If paper trading (on and off?) for 10 years has not provided you the insight to "fix" these issues (can't follow rules, can't hold, aversion to loss) why would it now? What are you doing differently (regarding paper trading) that makes you say you are "getting there"?
More...

Desperation :)

I found a method which I can follow finally its compstible with my issues mainly.

And moved to indexs away from Forex


That and up 350% this year
 
Turveyd said:
Desperation :)

I found a method which I can follow finally its compstible with my issues mainly.

And moved to indexs away from Forex


That and up 350% this year
More...

Great job Turveyd,

I commend you for staying with your plan and not giving up. Once you get a method and discipline, you golden. That's how I think about it.

Once you have discipline, the market will reward
 
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