Packaging yourself for a life after trading fulltime

[Bitstream]

Quote from risktaker:

Then, how is someone supposed to live off 6% commercial real estate yields?

Obviously returns are not exceptional but virtually risk free and with passing of time your proprieties are bound to appreciate if u buy on the right places.


Here in Europe (Italy) from a space in city centre with an estimated value around 200.000 euros returns are of around 45.000 per year (before tax)

Valuations are still based on a few years back but I know it's not worth much more at present.

 

[downtickboy]

Quote from newguy1:

have you ever thought about sales? (broker?)

I always wondered how a place like Smith Barney would view a trader looking into becoming a financial advisor/broker.

They would probably like it however I have zero interest in that right now. That is a lot more sales oriented and I am thinking what I would want to do career wise and where I want to be 10 years from now and that is not it. I am looking more into a foot in the door in a different direction that will lead to where I want to go a few years down the road.

 

[mokwit]

Make sure you are interviewing with people above the middle management level. Find a way to get in front of people higher up.

I had severe problems getting hired when I was at a level where the interviewing with middle management. I had no trouble getting hired by self made people or once I was interviewing at senior management level in corporates. Middle managers and self made/senior corporate are a different species. Middle management hires the reputation of your previous employer. Senior people hire the right person in front of them.

I agree about the advice on real estate, a lot of money will be made by the cash rich buying from the overextended at the bottom of the inevtable downturn, but there will be layoffs in most companies and getting hired as a fairly inexperienced person in a contracted industry may prove difficult.

 

[risktaker]

downtickboy, my apoligies for cutting in on your thread again but I really have a hard time when someone posts absurd crap.

Bitstream, do you know what the hell you're talking about? What do you think, people are stupid or what? That's 22.5% per year!
When interest rates in Europe are in the low single digits! Show me 1, ONE property *anywhere* in Europe, yes, even Eastern Europe with those numbers.

Quote from Bitstream:

Obviously returns are not exceptional but virtually risk free and with passing of time your proprieties are bound to appreciate if u buy on the right places.


Here in Europe (Italy) from a space in city centre with an estimated value around 200.000 euros returns are of around 45.000 per year (before tax)

Valuations are still based on a few years back but I know it's not worth much more at present.

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from risktaker:

Bitstream, do you know what the hell you're talking about? What do you think, people are stupid or what? That's 22.5% per year!
When interest rates in Europe are in the low single digits! Show me 1, ONE property *anywhere* in Europe, yes, even Eastern Europe with those numbers.

Uhm

Yes in Eastern Europe, dude. And more than 22.5%/year. Certain very big and very well known city that has made many ppl millionaires and even billionaires in less than 10 years. And there is more such growth to come with some new changes in regulations.

 

[downtickboy]

Quote from mokwit:

Make sure you are interviewing with people above the middle management level. Find a way to get in front of people higher up.

I had severe problems getting hired when I was at a level where the interviewing with middle management. I had no trouble getting hired by self made people or once I was interviewing at senior management level in corporates. Middle managers and self made/senior corporate are a different species. Middle management hires the reputation of your previous employer. Senior people hire the right person in front of them.

I agree about the advice on real estate, a lot of money will be made by the cash rich buying from the overextended at the bottom of the inevtable downturn, but there will be layoffs in most companies and getting hired as a fairly inexperienced person in a contracted industry may prove difficult.

Interesting perspective on the different levels of managment. Now that is some advice that one might not think of if you have not had to jump through those hoops before. Thanks. Most of my dealings have been with the correct people like CIO's or heads of the departments. My difficulty so far has been in selling myself in a way that is attractive enough for them to take a chance as most of the learning in on the job. However hopefully these classes I will be taking starting in Jan will help clean up some of this. I have some good opportunities in the works I just don't want to blow so I am trying to think of the best way to package and explain previous trading work experience so it shows some transferance of skills that a "real world" firm could use.

About the real estate industry I understand what you are saying. Although at least in the commercial side things here are still good and a lot of the firms are expanding who are positioned right and diversified. So there are still opportunites to get in on the commercial side (which is really where I want to be anyway). A big thing with some firms that are still expanding are the firms specializing in the TIC 1031 exchange firms. So there are still some good opportunities although I admit probably not as ideal as a few years ago. However I would like to get experience and more knowledge now to be able to position myself to take advantage of the next cycle but as a principal.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from risktaker:

downtickboy, my apoligies for cutting in on your thread again but I really have a hard time when someone posts absurd crap.

Bitstream, do you know what the hell you're talking about? What do you think, people are stupid or what? That's 22.5% per year!
When interest rates in Europe are in the low single digits! Show me 1, ONE property *anywhere* in Europe, yes, even Eastern Europe with those numbers.

If u had done your calculations u would have realized that taxes are going to eat half of your profits. So the return is around 10-12%.
I and my family before me have been managing estate for decades, and my example was based on one of my proprieties rented as a commercial space.
On smaller spaces it's closer to 7-8%.
Feel free to pm me and I'll send u location addresses and value.

PS1 I hope u were not talking about appreciation, otherwise your arguments make no sense.
PS2 Aplogies to downtickboy for ruining your thread.

 

[cooldude]

Repackaging for presentation?

Suppose that you are a fund manager or whatever that needs to make money. Would you consider hiring someone who says that he can't generate sufficient profits to allow him to have a better life?

Why not repackage your trading and make it more profitable now that you have more experience? Trading can generate profits to allow you to 'pursuit other fields of interest'. Trading is simply a tool.

It is a crime to throw away years of accumulated knowlege.
Don't do it. Do not even think that you will not regret later.
:eek:

 

[downtickboy]

Quote from cooldude:

Repackaging for presentation?

Suppose that you are a fund manager or whatever that needs to make money. Would you consider hiring someone who says that he can't generate sufficient profits to allow him to have a better life?

Why not repackage your trading and make it more profitable now that you have more experience? Trading can generate profits to allow you to 'pursuit other fields of interest'. Trading is simply a tool.

It is a crime to throw away years of accumulated knowlege.
Don't do it. Do not even think that you will not regret later.
:eek:

I think you missed some of what I was getting at. I have not really enjoyed trading for over the last year. I think I have a lot of skills and talents that are valuable but have no value in trading. There are other things I would enjoy doing that I think I can make a lot more money with then trading and that I would enjoy getting up and doing a lot more.

As far as your fund manager comment I think there would be easy ways to explain that. To tell you the truth I have not really focused too much on that direction anyway as I felt it would be more of the same. Say the ES is up 5-10% on the year. I would say most fund managers would be around the same return. Well you have the same results in a relatively large account (500K) and you are making a low to standard salary of a regular job with all of the risk that next year you could make nothing. So it is really not a fair comparison or enticing proposition with all the other things available for someone to do unless they are loving trading. IF you give the fund manager your account then suddenly it is looking like he is not the successful either and would probably soon figure out there are better things to do.

By the way the above was all for example purposes and not real life numbers.

 

[downtickboy]

Oh and once again I am not totally giving up trading. Out here I still have plenty of time to trade eurex, currencies, and stocks in the morning if I really wanted to and conditions were favorable as I have experience with them all. I just don't want to be that my sole focus anymore as there are many other things that interest me that I want to pursue while I am still young and have some flexibility.

I would think there are a lot of part time traders out there that might be on the other end of the hiring table that could chime in with some suggestions. I guess I starting this right before Chistmas was not the best timing.