PA "Setups"

[Buy1Sell2]

To be a successful trader...you need a lot more than just a trade signal. That's a tough thing for most to figure out because a lot of traders think all they need is just a trade method and nothing else.

[/QUOTE]

Bingo. Most people including the PA folks disregard the most important aspect of trading--the true edge---Capital and the prudent use thereof.

 

[WWarrior]

To be a successful trader...you need a lot more than just a trade signal.

I've spent a lot of time with institutional traders

I think also traders who lack market knowledge have to be more reliant on money management

 

[romik]

"Market knowledge" what's that exactly?

 

[k p]

"Market knowledge" what's that exactly?

Its that thing you used to do over and over again that made you lose money each time. Eventually, you figure out that next time you see this same thing, if you get in the same way as you did before, you are very likely to lose money again.

So to me, market knowledge comes down to knowing how you've always been screwed out of your money, and now knowing either to either say out, or look for a possible reason to get into the opposite trade that you would usually take.

ie. In another thread just the other day, Handle mentioned in a journal that he would never short after a big down bar. This is market knowledge. Sure, sometimes you get a cascade down that will be down bar after down bar, but more often than not, that quick move down will retrace back up, and this is of course why as price is dropping quickly, there are still lots of people buying to complete those transactions.

 

[romik]

It was a sarcastic question addressed to the quoted poster. Take DB as an example, he keeps posting countless price ranges and if one reads his rather long posts he may form an opinion that this guy really "knows" market behaviour and therefore would be trading a high win system, he posts numerous ranges, but would never post whether he would go Long or Short the market, nor he ever suggests where he would place his stops (if at all are used).

Money management is applicable at all times, as nobody is in possession of the holy grail, as it quite simply doesn't exist. The proof is in the pudding, trouble is, there isn't one. Consistently high win rate systems do not exist.

Performance will and does always vary in pro trading, overall IMO it's close to 50/50, of course it's possible to have a row of winning trades, as well as losing ones and both line of events aren't sustainable just because you feel you "know" the market.

 

[marketsurfer]

It was a sarcastic question addressed to the quoted poster. Take DB as an example, he keeps posting countless price ranges and if one reads his rather long posts he may form an opinion that this guy really "knows" market behaviour and therefore would be trading a high win system, he posts numerous ranges, but would never post whether he would go Long or Short the market, nor he ever suggests where he would place his stops (if at all are used).

Money management is applicable at all times, as nobody is in possession of the holy grail, as it quite simply doesn't exist. The proof is in the pudding, trouble is, there isn't one. Consistently high win rate systems do not exist.

Performance will and does always vary in pro trading, overall IMO it's close to 50/50, of course it's possible to have a row of winning trades, as well as losing ones and both line of events aren't sustainable just because you feel you "know" the market.

100% correct. However, one thing, high win rate edges do exist- they dont last long, but they are always there in one form or another. They have nothing to do with price action or these naive and basically very ignorant market philosophies of the charting obsessive papertraders on this site. Peace

 

[marketsurfer]

"Market knowledge" what's that exactly?

As you can see, they can't even succinctly define their own terms. One of these paper warriors made the statement that 100 transactions provides relevant statistical inference. Talk about not having a clue. But rather than listening and learning, they try to become leaders based on repetitive rhetoric and parroting books. Sad really. surf

 

[Handle123]

I think also traders who lack market knowledge have to be more reliant on money management

LOL, This is the most absurd statement I have read in awhile, GOOD money management will beat you every time. Just cause you can identify Price patterns, average Swing length, Time cycles, Elliott Waves, Fib clusters, ATR, reports, half cycle wave lengths, time of trade whether in sessions or months of the year, indicators, doesn't mean the price will adhere to your trade. Proper MM skills takes years to accumulate, much study and reflection, back testing, stats to back up rules. So many use vague statements of various phases and yet they are can't define.

High win rates are tough to develop, you have to be able to make very small sums and be able to accept that one tick is a nice profitable win or you can say they are a breakeven considering most in this forum don't take into account that "your time" should be paid eventually, we spend years, thousands of hours in beginning and only see losses, at some point your time has to be part of the equation of signals. I believe too many believe that huge profits in day trading is the way to go, nothing I have back tested shows high win rates, more of an inverse that fewer high profit and lower winning percentages, whereas small profitable trades much higher win rates, suppose comes down to personalities of what each can accept. Some markets like Crude Oil, Gold, Russell, some currencies and maybe Bonds have possible of huge profits per trade but consistency is never going to there. When trading ES, it is more of identifying chop and making ticks and few times of 8 ticks and be happy with seldom losing. There are "Holy Grail" systems, but most would say few ticks several times a day not to be thrilled to have, and those who have developed them, certainly not going to announce they have them.

 

[dbphoenix]

100% correct. However, one thing, high win rate edges do exist- they dont last long, but they are always there in one form or another. They have nothing to do with price action or these naive and basically very ignorant market philosophies of the charting obsessive papertraders on this site. Peace

SHAK

 

[dbphoenix]

I think also traders who lack market knowledge have to be more reliant on money management

I don't know what you mean by "market knowledge", but if you mean knowledge of whatever market they're trading, they should obtain that knowledge before budging one millimeter from whatever position they're in. Money management won't save anyone whose trading system sucks. Assuming they have a trading system (a thoroughly-tested and consistently-profitable trading system). Which they most likely do not.

It's nice that this thread is the "most-viewed", and there appear to be a lot of posts, most of which I don't see because of all the people I have on Ignore. But as far as I know, only one person, barcadia, seems to understand what this thread is all about, which is testing setups, not going on and on again in typical loser fashion about how price action trading is nonsense.

The setups are what they are, and there aren't many. In fact, all that there are have been posted. If anyone wants to test them, the results would be interesting to any PAT. Or even SLAyers. If no one does, that's okay too. Some people are working. Most are feeling sorry for themselves.

I have always liked bird dogs better than kennel dogs. You know, ones who will get out and hunt for food rather than sit and yelp.

-- "Engine Charlie" Wilson, once Secretary of Defense