Owning a stock both as long as well as short

[earth_imperator]

@destriero's unique ability isn't only in derivatives - it's his candor at calling out the fakes, frauds, and the bullshit artists on the forum.

He is nothing but the biggest POS of ET! Everybody can confirm by analyzing his cryptic (elite, LOL), sicko and insulting postings. This POS has no manners, shows no respect to others, behaves like the fucked up king of the forum...
He is the bad name of ET, and I wonder why the sponsors don't complain about such behavior of this hillbilly without manners. Hopefully they did, and it's maybe the reason why lately many of the forums have no sponsors anymore, for example Options has none anymore, I guess b/c of the bad behavior of that POS...

 

[alistera]

With options it's possible to have the same symbol both as long as well as short in the account
by specifying "Buy to open" and "Sell to open".

I just wondered whether the same would make sense also in stock trading?
I don't know any broker that allows this for stocks in an account, but one of course can do it by using 2 accounts.

In which situations would it make sense to have this possibility of having a symbol
both as long as well as short, usually opened at different times, in account/portfolio?
Of course the question is: why keep both if they eliminate each other? (Like matter and anti-matter )

As usual everyone is wrong, each broker works differently and there are many times have held long futures short expiry and short futures long expiry, with every combination between especially for funds that was incubating.

Should you do this, absolutely not because you will have no idea what the cycles are in the markets, when to use it, why to use it, and when it stops working, so everyone is wrong because they have less than no clue how to do this, not that it doesn't work but for them it's the same difference

 

[earth_imperator]

@alistera, one could have a long term (multi-years) "commitment", and could also make independent short term trades in the same account, for example quarterly at ERs... There you have your said "market cycles"...

 

[destriero]

As usual everyone is wrong, each broker works differently and there are many times have held long futures short expiry and short futures long expiry, with every combination between especially for funds that was incubating.

Should you do this, absolutely not because you will have no idea what the cycles are in the markets, when to use it, why to use it, and when it stops working, so everyone is wrong because they have less than no clue how to do this, not that it doesn't work but for them it's the same difference

lol each broker in the US does not work differently. Regulations prohibit it in cash markets (equities don’t have futures markets). You cannot be long and short the same security in a single account, so you must structure the position as a box/roll or conversion (reversal)

You were short a futures calendar? So what? Was it in that $20K OPM account you were trading? WTF is incubating?

Calendar spreads (switches) trade > outrights in some futures mkts. We’re discussing equities here.

You can replicate a switch on equities by taking a position in the the roll trade (calendar). We discussed this but you’re a moron.

A futures switch carries a ton of var but for obvious (not to you) reasons boxes and rolls do not. We’re not talking about the yield curve, you simp.

 

[destriero]

TheDawn writes: To me, not allowing short selling is the biggest manipulation of the market and runs most contrary to the free market. I mean buying and selling are two sides of the same coin, two equally important trading actions that create an active market. How can they allow one to buy a security without owning it first and disallow one to sell a security when not owning it?

Shorting is legal in the US. It's a supply issue, not generally regulatory (some exceptions). You can short the synthetic in listed options and the financing is embedded in the synthetic's discount to shares. You cannot arb the discount (as you cannot short the natural (at edge) to effect the reversal).

 

[murray t turtle]

@alistera, one could have a long term (multi-years) "commitment", and could also make independent short term trades in the same account, for example quarterly at ERs... There you have your said "market cycles"...

%%
OK;
but that may not make sense for long time , ETFs anyway, as you hinted some .
May make sense sometimes on a Fed day, but that would not be for very long, since its just a ''Fed day''
And seldom is ''everyone wrong''LOL

 

[destriero]

He is nothing but the biggest POS of ET! Everybody can confirm by analyzing his cryptic (elite, LOL), sicko and insulting postings. This POS has no manners, shows no respect to others, behaves like the fucked up king of the forum...
He is the bad name of ET, and I wonder why the sponsors don't complain about such behavior of this hillbilly without manners. Hopefully they did, and it's maybe the reason why lately many of the forums have no sponsors anymore, for example Options has none anymore, I guess b/c of the bad behavior of that POS...

Stop writing stupid shit?

 

[stv17]

I had this in the past with Etrade ( on Etrade pro). I wanted to short a stock and by accident went long, then shorted the stock and it did accept the trade. The stock did go down and closed the trade when I was profitable and during the next few days averaged down on my long position until I closed the trade with a profit.
Although, I never did it again it makes sense somewhat as a scalping strategy.

 

[ETJ]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/constructivesalerule.asp#:~:text=Constructive sales include making short,of an already-held asset.

The first offense they will likely just want the tax and penalties.

 

[newwurldmn]

I had this in the past with Etrade ( on Etrade pro). I wanted to short a stock and by accident went long, then shorted the stock and it did accept the trade. The stock did go down and closed the trade when I was profitable and during the next few days averaged down on my long position until I closed the trade with a profit.
Although, I never did it again it makes sense somewhat as a scalping strategy.

I’ve done it by accident on etrade as well. They used to do it on expiries too where they would create a box if you for example had a gut strangle. They charged you borrow on the short position.

there’s no economic reason to have a box. And it’s illegal as it can be considered market manipulation. You could have made the same moves without the box and earned the same money.