Overwhelming Majority Of Americans Support Gov't Health Care Even If Taxes Rise

Ignoring your silly propaganda at the end, but the reason I mentioned leaving, is not because im against your free speach blah blah blah

But simply because as I stated before, your value align with europeans, not americans.

The world is a free market, can you choose whatever free country you want to live in.

Why would you subject yourself to living in amercia where the values are directly contrary to your euro-like values?

Moving somewhere where the govt principles and values match your own simply makes sense.

But dont stay in america and try to change it into europe. I LIKE america the way it is and dont want the euro system of rob from the working and give to the slackers, thank you very much.

And no I dont blindly follow the govt leaders and think its great. Im for small govt and there are big problems in the US govt, just look at the push for socialized medicine :D

Your attack on the founding fathers does nothing to discredit their original ideas that formed this country, so ill ignore that propaganda as well.

There are no slaves today, and women vote and are equal, it all worked out and the constitution can directly be pointed at as the driving force. The US govt started walking the talk laid down by the founders and here we are.

Unfortunately, they are now ignoring a lot of the original ideas and turning towards socialism. No thanks.




Quote from saxon22:

Well the founding fathers had no problem with slavery, women not being allowed to vote and the native Americans were not even considered humans by them. So spare me this propaganda BS about the founding fathers. They were not Jesus Christ and the 12 Apostles, quiet the contrary, a bunch of scared white lawyers, land and slave holders who were looking to get around from paying for the debts the kingdom occurred as a result of fighting the French Indian War and were pissed off that the British decided to halt the expansion to the Appalachia Mountains. Also, if you read any of the ideas that the founding fathers have you would notice that they disliked democracy, disliked the regular folk and wanted a weak government that would not ask much of them and in return would not provide services that they really did not need. So you are right the founding fathers would be against all the things you mentioned, because none of them would benefit from them so why have it. I would not call it patriotic but a cold calculation.
As for me packing up.... I was under the impression that discourse, freedom of speech and the marketplace of ideas were part of American scene. Do you only want people who think like you and act like you and have nothing but love and admiration for our government and leaders? Should I leave because I think differently than what Fox would like me to think??? Is this American???? I think that what you would like the US to become is another North Korea where everybody agrees that their leader is great and those who disagree with the status quo are not welcome in the society.
More...
 
Cherry pick all you want, but I look around and see myself,

in a nice place
driving a nice car
debt free
with a huge pile of cash in the bank
eating great and healthy food in health conscience california
I work low hours
I have months of vacation a year
I have great health insurance with some of the best medical care in the world
live in a crime free area
have access to surfing, skiing, rock climbing, mountain biking, kite surfing, etc, all within short drives
im quite happy thank you very much
im not taxed to death for my hard work
and yes I have a 60" flat screen and an xbox 360 :D

So you see, and I can reverse cherry pick all day too and what does it prove?

In the end, the study is correct, americans do have more cars, washer/driers, bigger homes, blah blah blah, and are not taxed to death nearly as much as europeans.

Eating crap food, working long hours, huge debt, that all depends on the individual. In the usa, we have the freedom to be whatever we want without a stupid govt bearing down on us, stepping on our necks with a big black boot and never allowing us to accumulate any real wealth like in europe.

With euro tax rates, building wealth is so hard. Id just be an unemployed bum, go surf every day, collect my govt cheese, and let the slackers pay for my lazy ass :D

At least here, I can reap the rewards of my hard work and get to where I am today, cruising on easy street, stress free with financial security.





Quote from Hydroblunt:

Europeans enjoy better food, better air, better environment, better social & recreational services, free healthcare & education. They lead better lives and are happier (there are studies behind this). Their unemployment rate is sustainable because the government does support them.

Meanwhile, the big car, big TV, big house American is so far up in debt, that there is no chance of ever paying it off. He is stressed out beyond belief with debts, is working long hours, eating sh*t quality food and is destroying his health.

A car is a NECESSITY in America, not a luxury. Public transportation is a joke in this country. Except Manhattan. Here a car is a luxury. Imagine living in the burbs without a car. You will go take that subprime loan within a month or two if you can to buy yourself an overpriced vechile. Yet somehow this is a standard of living benefit, funny stuff.

You see anywhere in that study a mention about living beyond your means? Or the fact of how oveleraged the Americans are?
How about the fact that these BIG living spaces are in the middle of nowhere or in bad areas. Where it requires an hour drive to get anywhere. Or maybe the difference in European vs American values about culture and true enjoyment of life instead of the endless "get more money" race.

Any mention of inflation and how the USD is becoming more worthless everyday? You do know that's a hidden tax.
Bigger TVs huh? The old American adage "Bigger is better"
Funny cause US cable is a joke in comparison to European programming.

Does the study at all mention that nearly 40% of Americans are living below the poverty line? How about those improvished areas, like Baltimore, MD? Oh wait, see the government is smart, they just start locking up those who are not "economically viable" in today's economy so they don't really show up in the study.

It's a feeble study attempting to fight simple factual observations & common sense. This is a new America, one with jobless "recoveries", rampant inflation and falling wages. Just based on that alone, where do you think the standard of living is headed?
More...
 
I think it is important to figure the difference in tax rates. For someone with a decent income, paying private insurance is a better deal. Now if you have a low income, the value of the government health plan is basically fixed so it becomes a greater percentage of your income.

Say, 500/month on a 60k salary is 10%. But the same 500/month health plan on a 150k salary is only 4% of gross. Definitely a socialist system. Optimal use of your time re: health care is to be unemployed if it's free for all.

We could solve this pretty quick but there would be a revolt among the low-paid. The government could just make health insurance mandatory (like auto liability insurance) in most states, and demand that employers provide it and deduct it from employees paychecks. That would leave most low-paid jobs unfilled as they would pay nothing or negative wages.
 
Quote from traderdragon2:

More...

So the part I am stuck at is why you feel that this is the case for most of the country. It must be just one person who keeps running up consumer debt & subprime loans.

Oh wait, you were trying to counter my argument. Cause notating that 40% of America is living below the poverty line is cherry-picking. Nice one.

People do build wealth in Europe, you do realize they actually have a POSITIVE savings rate, unlike USA. Do you completely ignore the fact of the Euro strength? There is some wealth building right there, even if you are just sitting there getting handouts. Reverse is USA, where inflation is rampant and the USD is sinking.

California is not at all representative of USA. Ironically, California is notorious for filling up human storages with those no longer "economically viable" in the new economy. Might want to investigate the heavy lobbying behind "three strikes" rule.

10-20 years ago, US had the higher standard of living. Now that illusion is being kept up by consumer debt, statistics & paper pushing. This is the new America: weakening dollar, rampant inflation, shrinking wages and a deteriorating job base. You know, someone like you can argue about the great standard of living in USA, but you certainly can't argue about where it's headed.

Quote from traderdragon2:

At least here, I can reap the rewards of my hard work and get to where I am today, cruising on easy street, stress free with financial security.
More...

Seriously, educate yourself about the many different European nations. You seem to have the impression that there are zero opportunities there. Even tiny nations like Cyprus have numerous opportunities which are no longer available here.
 
Quote from mtwokay:

Socialized medicine is ok so long as I don't have to pay for it and you have the option of participating.

I have no problem with the private organizations forming "clubs" whose membership fees go to pay for all other member's health care services and prescription drugs. Just keep the government out of it and let the private sector find ways of reducing costs through competition. Next time you go to the hospital for some procedure ask for the “cash price” and the “insured” price. (Note do not tell them you have insurance before asking for the cash price of a service). You’ll be amazed at the difference of some of the services.
More...


the insured price is a fraction of the cash price.it is ridiculous situation that the uninsured or cash paying should subsidize rhe insured. everybody in the US should be allowed to join a group plan to spread the risk.
 
Quote from Traveler:

I think it is important to figure the difference in tax rates. For someone with a decent income, paying private insurance is a better deal. Now if you have a low income, the value of the government health plan is basically fixed so it becomes a greater percentage of your income.

Say, 500/month on a 60k salary is 10%. But the same 500/month health plan on a 150k salary is only 4% of gross. Definitely a socialist system. Optimal use of your time re: health care is to be unemployed if it's free for all.

We could solve this pretty quick but there would be a revolt among the low-paid. The government could just make health insurance mandatory (like auto liability insurance) in most states, and demand that employers provide it and deduct it from employees paychecks. That would leave most low-paid jobs unfilled as they would pay nothing or negative wages.
More...

next step would be to force the employer to contribute, which will leadito higher unemployment like the european model
 
Quote from traderdragon2:



With euro tax rates, building wealth is so hard. Id just be an unemployed bum, go surf every day, collect my govt cheese, and let the slackers pay for my lazy ass :D

At least here, I can reap the rewards of my hard work and get to where I am today, cruising on easy street, stress free with financial security.
More...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world#List_of_tax_rates_around_the_world

Looking at the above site, Europe's tax rates are not bad at all. I think the US has close to the highest rates in the world when you add in state and social security taxes, not to mention other taxes like sales and property taxes. Plus if you are self employed, you pay full cost of health insurance. If you are an employee, you may have to contribute partially.
 
Guys, the situation in Europe is not good. I have a lot of family and friends there. Yes, if you are a bank trader in London, you are living in style. For everyone else, the unemployment there is disgraceful. Over 10% in Germany and France. Property values are getting crushed outside the big cities. Savings rates are high sure, but they have no EQUITY!!!!

Trust me man, it ain't good. When you compare the amount of money that americans have in stock, bonds and real estate, we blow Europe out the back door. The savings rate does not take this into account and that is why it's a joke of an indicator.

Europeans don't have millions in 401k plans like we do, they don't have millions in IRA's. Oh and as for their health insurance. It's not free in most countries, you pay for it. All my family pays for health insurance over there. Yes, they have subsidized health care for the poor which is analogous to our health care clinics here and free emergency room care.

Are there problems with the US? Of course there are. But compared to Europe, we are fine.
 
Quote from NasdaqTrader:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world#List_of_tax_rates_around_the_world

Looking at the above site, Europe's tax rates are not bad at all. I think the US has close to the highest rates in the world when you add in state and social security taxes, not to mention other taxes like sales and property taxes. Plus if you are self employed, you pay full cost of health insurance. If you are an employee, you may have to contribute partially.
More...

Your numbers don't include local taxes and also the rental taxes you pay over there. Yes, you heard me correctly, you actually pay tax to rent, not own!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top