Overwhelming Majority Of Americans Support Gov't Health Care Even If Taxes Rise

[saxon22]

Quote from traderdragon2:

Then go already

You seem completely unaware of the principles this country was formed on.

The founding fathers would be entirely against socialized healthcare, welfare, big government, high taxes, and pro national defense.

What is sad is that you are completely unaware that these are exactly the principles this country was formed on. People who fight against this bullshit are doing what they are supposed to do, they are being americans and following this countries founders principles.

It is you who is out of touch.
Maybe you should pack up, because you align with europeans values, not american.

Well the founding fathers had no problem with slavery, women not being allowed to vote and the native Americans were not even considered humans by them. So spare me this propaganda BS about the founding fathers. They were not Jesus Christ and the 12 Apostles, quiet the contrary, a bunch of scared white lawyers, land and slave holders who were looking to get around from paying for the debts the kingdom occurred as a result of fighting the French Indian War and were pissed off that the British decided to halt the expansion to the Appalachia Mountains. Also, if you read any of the ideas that the founding fathers have you would notice that they disliked democracy, disliked the regular folk and wanted a weak government that would not ask much of them and in return would not provide services that they really did not need. So you are right the founding fathers would be against all the things you mentioned, because none of them would benefit from them so why have it. I would not call it patriotic but a cold calculation.
As for me packing up.... I was under the impression that discourse, freedom of speech and the marketplace of ideas were part of American scene. Do you only want people who think like you and act like you and have nothing but love and admiration for our government and leaders? Should I leave because I think differently than what Fox would like me to think??? Is this American???? I think that what you would like the US to become is another North Korea where everybody agrees that their leader is great and those who disagree with the status quo are not welcome in the society.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from saxon22:

Well the founding fathers had no problem with slavery, women not being allowed to vote and the native Americans were not even considered humans by them. So spare me this propaganda BS about the founding fathers. They were not Jesus Christ and the 12 Apostles, quiet the contrary, a bunch of scared white lawyers, land and slave holders who were looking to get around from paying for the debts the kingdom occurred as a result of fighting the French Indian War and were pissed off that the British decided to halt the expansion to the Appalachia Mountains. Also, if you read any of the ideas that the founding fathers have you would notice that they disliked democracy, disliked the regular folk and wanted a weak government that would not ask much of them and in return would not provide services that they really did not need. So you are right the founding fathers would be against all the things you mentioned, because none of them would benefit from them so why have it. I would not call it patriotic but a cold calculation.
As for me packing up.... I was under the impression that discourse, freedom of speech and the marketplace of ideas were part of American scene. Do you only want people who think like you and act like you and have nothing but love and admiration for our government and leaders? Should I leave because I think differently than what Fox would like me to think??? Is this American???? I think that what you would like the US to become is another North Korea where everybody agrees that their leader is great and those who disagree with the status quo are not welcome in the society.

Well said...

 

[HoustonMark]

Amen Alp

Visit a VA hospital and imagine yourself "there"....that is government run healthcare up close and personal.....and you can bet the bureaucrats won't be taking advantage of their own invention if healthcare for all becomes the law of the land...

Quote from AlpineTrout:

2) Anything the government does, the Private Sector does better. Can you name one thing the government does well, except maybe blow things up.

(B]

 

[maxpi]

Quote from wave:

Why should I have to pay 60% taxes when I can pay 30% or less and why should I only earn .000001% on my social security dollars when I can earn 0.1%? Make social security private. Knowledge and education and prevention are the keys. If we were smarter, we would be healthier and wealthier.

God helps those who help themselves.

That private social security idea sure got killed off quickly. Never mind that it works other places, it's the ideology that is important to Democrats, not results. The big risk in the current social security plan is hyper inflation. That is likely to happen too, eventually, and people on social security will literally starve. Comedians will be making jokes about old folks eating Alpo again like in the 70's.

California is implementing health care for all [illegals that work cheap] in the form of subsidies to the medical insurance industry. Our health care is never about our health, it is about the money. Even the healthy choice food does not provide the nutrition we need and the food in the stores is largely not healthy choice, it is largely addicting via sugar in several forms. So people are dying from lack of knowledge about food and the health care industry is cashing in and even lobbying for more government subsidies. There is no end in sight for the downward spiral in the US and an amazingly high percentage of the population at all ages are taking prescription drugs. I studied nutrition and supplementation and spend the money I would be spending on drugs on supplements, and that is working out fine so far.

Eventually people might wake up and realize that the public sector is not looking out for them at all and just start ignoring it. As a trader with no employees, as long as you pay your taxes and mind your own business they leave you pretty much alone. Most other businesses they will screw with you to some extent.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from maxpi:

That private social security idea sure got killed off quickly. Never mind that it works other places, it's the ideology that is important to Democrats, not results. The big risk in the current social security plan is hyper inflation. That is likely to happen too, eventually, and people on social security will literally starve. Comedians will be making jokes about old folks eating Alpo again like in the 70's.

California is implementing health care for all [illegals that work cheap] in the form of subsidies to the medical insurance industry. Our health care is never about our health, it is about the money. Even the healthy choice food does not provide the nutrition we need and the food in the stores is largely not healthy choice, it is largely addicting via sugar in several forms. So people are dying from lack of knowledge about food and the health care industry is cashing in and even lobbying for more government subsidies. There is no end in sight for the downward spiral in the US and an amazingly high percentage of the population at all ages are taking prescription drugs. I studied nutrition and supplementation and spend the money I would be spending on drugs on supplements, and that is working out fine so far.

Eventually people might wake up and realize that the public sector is not looking out for them at all and just start ignoring it. As a trader with no employees, as long as you pay your taxes and mind your own business they leave you pretty much alone. Most other businesses they will screw with you to some extent.

Where does privatized social security work?

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from traderdragon2:

The "The EU vs. USA" study is incredible. Just because you claim there are obvious flaws and dont think the conclusions are valid, doesnt make it so.

The study made sure to compare tangible things instead of just money for a reason. Its a fair comparison.

Yes, a car does in fact signify a certain standard of living duh. You actually think its a burden instead of a luxury? Tell that to the third world people who travel around in carts with a donkey or on foot. Give me a break, you are way off the deep end here.

Americans have more cars, bigger homes, more Tv's, more just about everything.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but just about in every way, we have a higher standard of living and that is a fact.

Go read the study directly, not just some short piece on it. Its really eye opening.

Take a look at the europeans effective tax rates. Id eat a bullet instead.

Europeans enjoy better food, better air, better environment, better social & recreational services, free healthcare & education. They lead better lives and are happier (there are studies behind this). Their unemployment rate is sustainable because the government does support them.

Meanwhile, the big car, big TV, big house American is so far up in debt, that there is no chance of ever paying it off. He is stressed out beyond belief with debts, is working long hours, eating sh*t quality food and is destroying his health.

A car is a NECESSITY in America, not a luxury. Public transportation is a joke in this country. Except Manhattan. Here a car is a luxury. Imagine living in the burbs without a car. You will go take that subprime loan within a month or two if you can to buy yourself an overpriced vechile. Yet somehow this is a standard of living benefit, funny stuff.

You see anywhere in that study a mention about living beyond your means? Or the fact of how oveleraged the Americans are?
How about the fact that these BIG living spaces are in the middle of nowhere or in bad areas. Where it requires an hour drive to get anywhere. Or maybe the difference in European vs American values about culture and true enjoyment of life instead of the endless "get more money" race.

Any mention of inflation and how the USD is becoming more worthless everyday? You do know that's a hidden tax.
Bigger TVs huh? The old American adage "Bigger is better"
Funny cause US cable is a joke in comparison to European programming.

Does the study at all mention that nearly 40% of Americans are living below the poverty line? How about those improvished areas, like Baltimore, MD? Oh wait, see the government is smart, they just start locking up those who are not "economically viable" in today's economy so they don't really show up in the study.

It's a feeble study attempting to fight simple factual observations & common sense. This is a new America, one with jobless "recoveries", rampant inflation and falling wages. Just based on that alone, where do you think the standard of living is headed?

 

[maxpi]

Quote from saxon22:

It is so sad to ses so many ET members being so unaware of what is really going on in the US. The propaganda system that the US elites have been able to put in place is truly awesome. government is bad, privatization of everything is good. No health care to those who can't afford it, lower taxes, we are # 1, god bless USA, if you do not like it leave it etc. etc ad nauseam. It is so sad and depressing, Makes me wanna pack things up and head back for Europe.

I think the govt is bad argument here is really more like govt is inefficient, therefore should not be used except where necessary.

Privatization and deregulation were the Republican watchwords of the day during the Reagan admin. He managed to get S & L lending requirements deregulated and kept the govt guarantees in place so all people had to do was open an S & L, lend to their friends, be unable to get the payments and they cashed in to the tune of trillions, dang, govt is bad actually.

Hillary care will be a joke just like everything else the public sector does. Democrats of today won't even answer questions from Fox News reporters, the pieces of shit can't field the hard ones so they go ballistic on the reporters and make stuff up, Clinton did it, Barbara Boxer did it, we can't vote for some piece of shit that refuses to be accountable and answer questions now can we?? I'd rather watch Reagan do his number all over again than be stuck with Hillary care, given a choice actually....

One guy listed NASA as efficient!! This thread is as good as it gets, keep it up, please......

 

[saxon22]

Quote from Hydroblunt:

Europeans enjoy better food, better air, better environment, better social & recreational services, free healthcare & education. They lead better lives and are happier (there are studies behind this). Their unemployment rate is sustainable because the government does support them.

Meanwhile, the big car, big TV, big house American is so far up in debt, that there is no chance of ever paying it off. He is stressed out beyond belief with debts, is working long hours, eating sh*t quality food and is destroying his health.

A car is a NECESSITY in America, not a luxury. Public transportation is a joke in this country. Except Manhattan. Here a car is a luxury. Imagine living in the burbs without a car. You will go take that subprime loan within a month or two if you can to buy yourself an overpriced vechile. Yet somehow this is a standard of living benefit, funny stuff.

You see anywhere in that study a mention about living beyond your means? Or the fact of how oveleraged the Americans are?
How about the fact that these BIG living spaces are in the middle of nowhere or in bad areas. Where it requires an hour drive to get anywhere. Or maybe the difference in European vs American values about culture and true enjoyment of life instead of the endless "get more money" race.

Any mention of inflation and how the USD is becoming more worthless everyday? You do know that's a hidden tax.
Bigger TVs huh? The old American adage "Bigger is better"
Funny cause US cable is a joke in comparison to European programming.

Does the study at all mention that nearly 40% of Americans are living below the poverty line? How about those improvished areas, like Baltimore, MD? Oh wait, see the government is smart, they just start locking up those who are not "economically viable" in today's economy so they don't really show up in the study.

It's a feeble study attempting to fight simple factual observations & common sense. This is a new America, one with jobless "recoveries", rampant inflation and falling wages. Just based on that alone, where do you think the standard of living is headed?

Very good points. Sometimes it takes an outsider to point to what is broken in a society. Kind like Simon on American Idol.

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from maxpi:

I think the govt is bad argument here is really more like govt is inefficient, therefore should not be used except where necessary.

The laissez faire idealists keep forgetting that USA's government is heavily manipulated by lobbyists. Kinda ironic.

 

[maxpi]

Quote from ssternlight:

Where does privatized social security work?

Some south american countries, the one I had direct knowledge of [was it Peru, I cannot recall, it was a while back] hit breakeven in 8 years for a buddy of mine that started out on the privatized plan, he had a choice, privatized or typical non-invested pass through payment bullshit, went private and his retirement was greater after only 8 years with the plan.

The Democrats arguments prove that they think that people are absolutely incapable of taking care of themselves and we all need to be standardized down to the lowest level of accomplishment. They are acting like little Stalinists nowadays too, can't take the questions from Fox News reporters, poor, poor, widdle Democwats.