Overwhelming Majority Of Americans Support Gov't Health Care Even If Taxes Rise

1.You are already paying for the uninsured.

Partly, so why make it worse?

As I mentioned this has been shown to cost more than offering preventative care up front -- aka universal healthcare. That addresses your first two points specifically.
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Hardly. Ive seen no evidence that free preventative care will offset all the uninsured and "compassion" coverage.
You seem to think our wonderful govt can pull off a miracle like this, I dont.
The savings in "preventitive" measures will get burned away by govt beauracracy, bloat, covering the uninsured and "compassion" coverage easily.


2. Your health care is already run/subsidized by the government.

Lets fix that problem too. Stop giving away free healthcare, and then we dont have to subsidize anything.

I just dont get it. Why do people think they deserve something for free? Stealing from tax payers to pay for others people stuff is still stealing.
 
Quote from chisel:

Agree, so maybe democracy (mob rule) is not the answer. Lately, I've been thinking maybe only property owners should have the right to vote...or there should at least be some type of qualification to vote.

I'm not voting for anyone who's for socialized medicine.
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Well this may seem extreme but I would add that you cannot vote if you are receiving ANY financial support or assistance from the government.
 
Quote from mtwokay:

Well this may seem extreme but I would add that you cannot vote if you are receiving ANY financial support or assistance from the government.
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This would solve lots of society's problems. Better chance, though, criminals, illegals etc. will get their"right" to vote.
Washington whores know what's good for them.
 
Choosing something based on pragmatism alone without dealing with the morale aspects usually leads to disaster.

For example, in california, since we are already spending a fortune on illegals getting their healthcare via emergency rooms which cost 5-10X more than a regular doctor visit, they want to give illegals free healthcare.


Hey, Ive got an idea!!! DONT LET THEM INTO THE EMERGENCY ROOMS, they are criminals after all, here illegally. :mad:

Dont allow people to hire illegals either. Once you take away the bait of tax free jobs and free emergency room healthcare, they will stop coming. Duh.
 
Quote from traderdragon2:

Choosing something based on pragmatism alone without dealing with the morale aspects usually leads to disaster.

For example, in california, since we are already spending a fortune on illegals getting their healthcare via emergency rooms which cost 5-10X more than a regular doctor visit, they want to give illegals free healthcare.


Hey, Ive got an idea!!! DONT LET THEM INTO THE EMERGENCY ROOMS, they are criminals after all, here illegally. :mad:

Dont allow people to hire illegals either. Once you take away the bait of tax free jobs and free emergency room healthcare, they will stop coming. Duh.
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OK,

Trading done for the day. :)

If you live here you know how much of the CA economy depends on illegal immigrant labor.
 
Quote from traderdragon2:

1.You are already paying for the uninsured.

Partly, so why make it worse?




Hardly. Ive seen no evidence that free preventative care will offset all the uninsured and "compassion" coverage.
You seem to think our wonderful govt can pull off a miracle like this, I dont.
The savings in "preventitive" measures will get burned away by govt beauracracy, bloat, covering the uninsured and "compassion" coverage easily.


2. Your health care is already run/subsidized by the government.

Lets fix that problem too. Stop giving away free healthcare, and then we dont have to subsidize anything.

I just dont get it. Why do people think they deserve something for free? Stealing from tax payers to pay for others people stuff is still stealing.
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1. You just don't want to see it. But I'll say it again. You are already paying for all these so called "compassionate" costs. The bureaucracy you decry already exists...

2. What part of 60% of the health care system is supported by the federal government don't you understand. Think about it this way -- close 60% of the hospitals, emergency care centers, etc.. in the country. What happens?

I've got to run in about 10 mins but if we don't throw another salvo it's been fun.
 
Lamest excuse ive ever heard.

How about, cheap immigrant illegal labor lowers wages and puts poor americans out of work who have to pay taxes???

That excuse holds no water. Its just another pragmatic reply while ignoring the obvious.

In other words, youre are saying, its OK to break the law as long as it benefits someone somehow.

Guess ill go rob a bank and give the money to charity, and people like you will turn a blind eye.

Immigrants are great. But Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be dealt with as criminals.

I have no problem with a guest worker program where they get taxed. But the current way is wrong and illegal.
 
Quote from traderdragon2:

Lamest excuse ive ever heard.

How about, cheap immigrant illegal labor lowers wages and puts poor americans out of work who have to pay taxes???

That excuse holds no water. Its just another pragmatic reply while ignoring the obvious.

In other words, youre are saying, its OK to break the law as long as it benefits someone somehow.

Guess ill go rob a bank and give the money to charity, and people like you will turn a blind eye.

Immigrants are great. But Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be dealt with as criminals.

I have no problem with a guest worker program where they get taxed. But the current way is wrong and illegal.
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Actually, I agree with this point. A documented guest worker program is a good idea. Now try getting the corporate interests to support it. :mad:

My point, which I felt you were ignoring, was the economy as it's set up now won't run without them. Of course, this will mean higher prices for everything as but at least the system will be "fair."
 
2. What part of 60% of the health care system is supported by the federal government don't you understand. Think about it this way -- close 60% of the hospitals, emergency care centers, etc.. in the country. What happens?
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Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the souce of your 60% figure (I think), is also the co-founder of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP).
Biased ya think??? :D

They included the costs the government pays for healthcare of its government employees, much the same as a company does for its employees.
Thats pretty slimy, and makes the figure bogus.

Although its "technically" a tax payers expense, so is a government works salary, but we dont consider them tax payer leaches for being paid to work as a government employee. They are paying taxes and also pay for their healthcare. Part of their pacakge.

The number should only count the real slackers who dont pay for their healthcare and force the taxpayers to pay it and I seriously doubt that is 60%


If we simply stopped using taxpayer money to pay for free healthcare, costs could actually go down.

If people were responsible for their actions, and lived with the consequences, the taxpayer wouldnt have to fund any of the health care system.

More big govt run amuck. The scary thing is, if we get govt healthcare and it sucks crap, we will never get rid of it. We will be stuck with that crap forever. :mad:
 
It really doesnt matter to me, one way or the other. But, something needs to done about the rising costs of health care. Doctors, hospital, pharmacies, insurance companies, etc....
The prices are just as bad as stealing.
I had full coverage insurance, up until about 18 months ago, when my insurance company, refused to pay $9000, in hospital, and doctor bills. I paid my co-pay, and from there it is a long story as to how they refused to pay. But in the end, the doctors and hospital, wanted me to pay. The yelled, screamed, threaten to sue, went to collection agencies, and so on.....
I never have paid them, and dont ever intend to. There is nothing they can do, besides, put it on your credit report. After talking to several people in the credit industry, and them telling me, that they dont even consider medical stuff on credit reports, I decided to stand up to the thieves. Actually, it was before talking to credit people, that I decided I wasnt going to pay. It just made me feel better, that they wasnt much they could do.

After about 1 year, all the lettters and threats stopped.

My advice, if you feel cheated by the medical community, is dont pay them. There is little they can do.

I was in the hospital, for 4 hours. The bill--- over $9000
 
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