Overwhelming Majority Of Americans Support Gov't Health Care Even If Taxes Rise

[traderdragon2]

I have no fantasies about where the money come froms, but I do know in the end, in the current system I get great healthcare at a price I can afford.

You seem to think the government can reduce costs via negotiating and regulation, while ignorning the fact that their track record in the same is horrible when you consider medicare, social security and even the SEC.

As for "compassionate", you seem to think money magical appears on tree's and that the government can keep costs lower will increasing service.

We can just disagree at this point.

I have no confidence in this government to provide equivalent healthcare at the same or lower cost for me.

How could they? Its impossible. They have to now insure all the uninsured! Therefore, I pretty much know for a fact that my healthcare costs will go up in the form of taxes, and my service will go down.

Id be an idiot to vote for something that would do that much damage to me.

Quote from ssternlight:

Well,

We've been through this, your "private sector" health care is already hugely subsidized by the government --just not well regulated unfortunately. The cost of your medical care is subsidized. Your medicines are developed through tax credits and research grants.

You seem to have some fantasy that the measly monthly fee to an HMO covers the real cost of supporting the services received. That's not how the economics work. What universal health care is about -- apart from the compassionate side of providing everyone with decent health care -- is reducing costs through better negotiation power. Just think about the rate of increases in your own premiums over the last 10 years -- if you've been paying that long that is.

 

[traderdragon2]

With respect to negotiating, it's always a question of whether or not the politicians overtake common sense.

Now youre putting your trust in politicians not to F this up????? :eek:
SS and medicare, here we come again.

The more you type the more you convince me im right.

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from ssternlight:

Here's a couple of examples of how universal insurance improves health:

1. Lower incidence of communicable diseases.

2. More productive society as people end up being sick less frequently.

With respect to negotiating, it's always a question of whether or not the politicians overtake common sense. That doesn't change the appropriateness of the remedy. It just means we need to do some work on implementation. The whole no negotiating drug prices is a travesty.

There is no proof of that......Insurance coverage does not lead to health....people for the most part wait until they are sick already and then go to a Dr. and hope its covered...and again, do you think the Gov't should be doing this negotiating??? Take a look at the fed. budget...look how much special interest and pork is in their...heck, look at how the dems through 10 billion in unrelated items into the Iraq 100 billion budget...You think thats nog gonna happen???

 

[Gottschalk]

Quote from TM_Direct:

There is no proof of that......Insurance coverage does not lead to health....people for the most part wait until they are sick already and then go to a Dr. and hope its covered...and again, do you think the Gov't should be doing this negotiating??? Take a look at the fed. budget...look how much special interest and pork is in their...heck, look at how the dems through 10 billion in unrelated items into the Iraq 100 billion budget...You think thats nog gonna happen???

What sstern really meant to say was the preventative medicine does all those things not insurance coverage.

Of course we have a type of insurance that emphasizes preventative medicine it's called an HMO.

 

[Quark]

This isn't Wall Street News, it's freakin' politics.

Rateesquad, you commented on this thread, how about moving it where it belongs?

 

[dafugginman]

the government flat out overpays Medicare bills by $20 billion a year - just gives it away. national healthcare? could you imagine?

this is medicare only, not medicaid, and doesn't include part D.

Fraud is many, many multiples of that.

now they want to expand this govt healthcare nationwide and raise taxes to pay for it?

it's pretty unbelievable that we're even talking about expanding liabilities given the fiscal shape they are in, with SP projecting that the govt will lose thier AAA rating by 2012, and achieve junk status not long after.

lastly, i don't want to hear about any tax increase until they salavage some of the hundreds and hundreds of billions a year they waste in pork, fraud, and taxpayer abuse occuring annually.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from traderdragon2:

I have no fantasies about where the money come froms, but I do know in the end, in the current system I get great healthcare at a price I can afford.

You seem to think the government can reduce costs via negotiating and regulation, while ignorning the fact that their track record in the same is horrible when you consider medicare, social security and even the SEC.

As for "compassionate", you seem to think money magical appears on tree's and that the government can keep costs lower will increasing service.

We can just disagree at this point.

I have no confidence in this government to provide equivalent healthcare at the same or lower cost for me.

How could they? Its impossible. They have to now insure all the uninsured! Therefore, I pretty much know for a fact that my healthcare costs will go up in the form of taxes, and my service will go down.

Id be an idiot to vote for something that would do that much damage to me.

It's a bit disingenuous to decry the very programs that subsidize your "great healthcare." Personally, I don't think there is an option other than a universal system. When Medicare blows you won't be able to afford the health care you love so much now. And to reiterate, we already subsidize the uninsured.

As to the government, we have a crisis of representation right now. While I don't support your viewpoint -- and hope I can persuade you otherwise through discussion -- I do hope you will vote your conscience as we need to get back on track! Things are totally screwed up in DC.

I'm glad my systems are on auto this morning. This is much more engaging than usual.

 

[traderdragon2]

You didnt address any of my points.

Mainly, please explain how my level/quality of healthcare isnt going to go down the tubes, when the government pools all of our money so it can cover the 15% of americans that are not insured at all??

Since "compassion" is in the equation, please explain how costs wont go up when in addition to insuring the uninsured, they are also going to cover the costs for people who have been rejected in the past.

Please explain how the government will run this better than the SS/medicare/medicaid mess they have created and regulate better than they do on wall st where theives have been stealing for decades.

Please explain how adding the government as a middle man, along with the greedy policitians, can have any chance of not lowering my healthcare quality.


Your case for socialized medicine is horrible in my opinion. Worst idea ever.

I think you are dreaming about a government that doesnt exist, certainly not the US govt.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from traderdragon2:

You didnt address any of my points.

Mainly, please explain how my level/quality of healthcare isnt going to go down the tubes, when the government pools all of our money so it can cover the 15% of americans that are not insured at all??

Since "compassion" is in the equation, please explain how costs wont go up when in addition to insuring the uninsured, they are also going to cover the costs for people who have been rejected in the past.

Please explain how the government will run this better than the SS/medicare/medicaid mess they have created and regulate better than they do on wall st where theives have been stealing for decades.

Please explain how adding the government as a middle man, along with the greedy policitians, can have any chance of not lowering my healthcare quality.


Your case for socialized medicine is horrible in my opinion. Worst idea ever.

I think you are dreaming about a government that doesnt exist, certainly not the US govt.

Actually, I addressed your points.

But once again:

1.You are already paying for the uninsured.

They go to the hospital they get treated for free. As I mentioned this has been shown to cost more than offering preventative care up front -- aka universal healthcare. That addresses your first two points specifically.

2. Your health care is already run/subsidized by the government.

60% of all medical expenses come from Medicare. That 60% "incremental" contribution supports hospitals, emergency care centers, etc... that wouldn't operate on your monthly contribution dollars alone. So, when Medicare blows -- as it is scheduled to do in 10 years or so -- than the quality of your health care goes WAY WAY down. You consistently ignore the point that you are currently living a deficit funded government subsidized health care fantasy.

As I mentioned, the usual political opportunism/cronyism has prevented the government -- as distinct from our representatives -- from running it efficiently. That's where the nub of the problem is. That -- like the Iraq war -- is the wake up call. We saw congress turn over in the last election. We will see the same when Medicare goes. Right now, what can you really do when the President won't allow the government to negotiate prescription prices and the former Senate Majority leader's brother runs one of the nations largest HMO's?

I need to focus on trading for a bit here.

It's been fun.

 

[chisel]

Quote from traderdragon2:

You know, the old and the poor will eventually vote you out of all your money.

Agree, so maybe democracy (mob rule) is not the answer. Lately, I've been thinking maybe only property owners should have the right to vote...or there should at least be some type of qualification to vote.

I'm not voting for anyone who's for socialized medicine.