Overwhelming Majority Of Americans Support Gov't Health Care Even If Taxes Rise

[dandxg]

I missed the firestorm of discussion so far, but let me add my pennie worth.

I am different than most traders here probably. I have a degree in Sociology and I briefly did social work before I realized I couldn't live on $8 a hour in So Cal, right after I graduated.

I would have no problem paying more taxes for quality social programs. I realize we need guns not just butter, but we are well armed in the US and not enough folks have cream.

I have heard and read many stories where a number of the recent bankrupticies have been do to medical bills, and some of them had health insurance!

There a pros and cons to socialized health care, but I think the pros out way the cons.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from traderdragon2:

You know, the old and the poor will eventually vote you out of all your money. This is just the start. When are we going to take a stand and say NO, sorry, you should have saved enough money, you only F-ed yourself and im not going to pay for it???

We will effectively become slaves of the old via govt proxy.

Um...

The old and poor are the people that paid their entire lives into SS and Medicare to have it blow up on them at the end of their lives when they need it.

Are you sure you've actually thought -- like sat down and really considered -- this issue and what you are proposing?

 

[dwitherell]

If we get Hillary, or some other Dumocrat (I spelled that correctly), I can smell a disaster in the health sector thanks to their Communist agenda's!

I despise government cramming their lost agenda's down my throat, and so should you! Especially Communist sh*t like they're posied to pull!

Last, if any of you are gun owner's, and the Dums get their wish for President, you'll be sorry. If the Dums had their way, American's would have slingshots to protect thir families.

 

[traderdragon2]

How ironic. You just showcased what a horrible mess the GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS of SS and Medicare are.

And youre proposing another big government mess to fix this?

Guess what, I never plan to get my SS or use Medicare. They are a joke.

These are prime government examples, where I have to pay taxes, get nothing in return, and STILL have to pay my own way thru the private sector and personal investments.

Socialized US medicine will end up like SS and Medicare. One big mess that does nothing but TAX you, and give you nothing in return you can rely on.


I think you just made my case.

Yes, ive thought about this, maybe you havent thought about it enough?

Do you really want to get the shaft again, just like SS and Medicare from our government???


No thanks, im sticking to the private sector. I pay and they deliver.

Quote from ssternlight:

Um...

The old and poor are the people that paid their entire lives into SS and Medicare to have it blow up on them at the end of their lives when they need it.

Are you sure you've actually thought -- like sat down and really considered -- this issue and what you are proposing?

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from traderdragon2:

This begs the question, what would the government do in the same scenario? Where would the money come from, it doesnt magically grow on tree's. Thats right, from the taxpayer, therefore govt healthcare will be more expensive via taxes and all the BS government overhead and middlemen that will be added to the equation.



Its precisely the profit motive that makes companies work well. Where is the motive for government employees to provide service?



And you think the govt could do better? Either they also dont provide service under certain circumstances, or they do and it costs us a lot more thru taxes.
There is no magic here.



I wasnt aware that we currently suffer from third world country epidemics

Complicated stuff: Looks like fun.

1. The reason we don't have third world health problems is because we have an efficient public health system that will treat anyone that shows up at an emergency room. That's exactly my point. The government already pays -- and won't be able to afford to shortly.

2. There is a difference between a fair rate of return and gouging. Like I said look at the rate of return. Drug manufacturers are returning 20%/annum. That's double the SP historical average and in the range of private equity returns.

3. The reason the government can do better is simple: better negotiating power and the ability to regulate the industry.

 

[traderdragon2]

3. The reason the government can do better is simple: better negotiating power and the ability to regulate the industry.

This is where the flaw is.
Why doesnt Medicare/medicaid work then?
Not enough people in that system to be able to negotiate?

Doesnt the government regulate wall st too? Their doing a great job there huh? (Ponders recent insider trading scandals)

 

[NasdaqTrader]

I found an interesting link with a list of some countries that have universal health care....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publicly_funded_medicine#Countries_with_universal_health_care

Anyone from these countries care to comment on the quality of services that they receive?

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from ssternlight:

First, universal insurance, if you will, improves public health as it covers everyone -- so your car analogy is somewhat inaccurate.

Second, the ability to negotiate for virtually the entire country can't hurt.

Finally, look at the profitability of the health care industry, medical device makers, etc... over the last decade and compare them to the averages for any other sectors. They have been far above historical run rates...think about it.

How does Universal insurance improve health? Has Car Insurance coverage a) helped make cars run better b) make better drivers? of course not.

RE: negotiating for the entire country.....this is the same gov't that negotiated the panama canal deal ( that was brilliant), peace in the middle east (that worked well), NAFTA ( that's really helped the American manufacturer) and other well known blunders....Let's look at this though....They negotiate on our behalf, defense contracts right? We end up paying 250.00 for a military toilet seat!!! you don't think that the health care system and the doctors must be licking their chops??? If a defense contractor can get 50.00 for a 2 cent bolt, how much is angioplasty gonna cost the gov't???????

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from traderdragon2:

How ironic. You just showcased what a horrible mess the GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS of SS and Medicare are.

And youre proposing another big government mess to fix this?

Guess what, I never plan to get my SS or use Medicare. They are a joke.

These are prime government examples, where I have to pay taxes, get nothing in return, and STILL have to pay my own way thru the private sector and personal investments.

Socialized US medicine will end up like SS and Medicare. One big mess that does nothing but TAX you, and give you nothing in return you can rely on.


I think you just made my case.

Yes, ive thought about this, maybe you havent thought about it enough?

Do you really want to get the shaft again, just like SS and Medicare from our government???


No thanks, im sticking to the private sector. I pay and they deliver.

Well,

We've been through this, your "private sector" health care is already hugely subsidized by the government --just not well regulated unfortunately. The cost of your medical care is subsidized. Your medicines are developed through tax credits and research grants.

You seem to have some fantasy that the measly monthly fee to an HMO covers the real cost of supporting the services received. That's not how the economics work. What universal health care is about -- apart from the compassionate side of providing everyone with decent health care -- is reducing costs through better negotiation power. Just think about the rate of increases in your own premiums over the last 10 years -- if you've been paying that long that is.

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from TM_Direct:

How does Universal insurance improve health? Has Car Insurance coverage a) helped make cars run better b) make better drivers? of course not.

RE: negotiating for the entire country.....this is the same gov't that negotiated the panama canal deal ( that was brilliant), peace in the middle east (that worked well), NAFTA ( that's really helped the American manufacturer) and other well known blunders....Let's look at this though....They negotiate on our behalf, defense contracts right? We end up paying 250.00 for a military toilet seat!!! you don't think that the health care system and the doctors must be licking their chops??? If a defense contractor can get 50.00 for a 2 cent bolt, how much is angioplasty gonna cost the gov't???????

Here's a couple of examples of how universal insurance improves health:

1. Lower incidence of communicable diseases.

2. More productive society as people end up being sick less frequently.

With respect to negotiating, it's always a question of whether or not the politicians overtake common sense. That doesn't change the appropriateness of the remedy. It just means we need to do some work on implementation. The whole no negotiating drug prices is a travesty.