Overturn the SEC "Pattern Day Trader Rule"
- Thread starter Zarrar
- Start date
We are all aware of the fact that the economy has been on a down trend for quite some time now. All efforts made by the fed to jump start our economy (rate cuts) hasn't come to fruition. With tax refund already on its way, I believe it would be beneficial to the present state of our economy & market volatility to encourage more individuals to participate in the business of trading. The SEC is not helping the shape of our economy by setting limits and by excluding a great number of indiviuals (potential traders) who may have otherwise been motivated/interested in injecting some of their idle savings into our economy by participating in the trading process.
This issue is something that the SEC needs to re-evaluate and perhaps reconsider.
This issue is something that the SEC needs to re-evaluate and perhaps reconsider.
Yoda,
As of current, I have been to the SEC's website (http;//www.sec.gov) and have gathered several methods to contact them. There are many practical ways to get the SEC to hear the arguments, email is good, but it has no organization. The best bet would be to masybe write letters. I don't think the SEC is irrational about this since their inception of the 25k rule came about 2 years ago, at the height of the bull run, also the time when the economy ran the risk of inflation. But things have changed considerably since then, and more so with the WTC incident. If there ever was a reason to reconsider the 25k rule, it would be in the wake of this incident.
This incident has left a very large void in the economy only because of the location where it occured. Write letters, send emails, get organized or something, otherwise there might not be a tradable market. The FEDs have concluded that if necessary they will intervene and stimulate trading by adding liquidity in the coming trading sessions. This is how bad the situation is. Having said all this, im sure the SEC just needs a reminder about the 25k rule as to the re-evaluation of it.
As of current, I have been to the SEC's website (http;//www.sec.gov) and have gathered several methods to contact them. There are many practical ways to get the SEC to hear the arguments, email is good, but it has no organization. The best bet would be to masybe write letters. I don't think the SEC is irrational about this since their inception of the 25k rule came about 2 years ago, at the height of the bull run, also the time when the economy ran the risk of inflation. But things have changed considerably since then, and more so with the WTC incident. If there ever was a reason to reconsider the 25k rule, it would be in the wake of this incident.
This incident has left a very large void in the economy only because of the location where it occured. Write letters, send emails, get organized or something, otherwise there might not be a tradable market. The FEDs have concluded that if necessary they will intervene and stimulate trading by adding liquidity in the coming trading sessions. This is how bad the situation is. Having said all this, im sure the SEC just needs a reminder about the 25k rule as to the re-evaluation of it.
Excuse me, Zarrar, but your persistence in bringing up this issue over and over again is as inopportune as the PDT rule itself. I understand why you are upset, I agree that this rule is not going to make it easier for the securities industry to recover from the fallout of the bear market and today's horrendous disaster. However overturning this rule is not going to be THE solution to the current economic slump and saying so is only selfserving and almost ridiculous in light of today's events. Believe me the 25 K rule pissed me off too but I got over it. There are other ways to trade and other markets. There are more interesting topics to talk about.
Zarrar,
I feel sorry to read that you live in NYC. I hope you did not lose any friends, relatives or collegues. I also hope that you will find the peace of mind to somehow come to terms with Tuesday's terrible events.
I agree with Kicking and I suggest we drop this 25K issue for a while as the whole matter seems to have become utterly unimportant in the light of the past events. The SEC and other authorities will no doubt come up with all sorts of measures to ensure the stability of the American and World economy. Wether abolishing the 25K rule will be one of them is hard to say, and really at the moment I could not care less.
The interests of daytraders (as that's what we're talking about here) is not the SEC's main concern right now. Daytrading is by no means the motor of the American economy. The thought that the 25K rule might hamper its recovery seems to me ridiculous, and grossly overestimating the meaning of daytrading to the economy. Remember that behind every winner there's a loser, while nothing is being produced that could be of use to the economy. Economy is not only about money, it's also about goods and about people.
Let's not try and find a way to take advantage of the situation, by saying that the US economy needs small capital traders (not investors!) for its recovery, for imho that just isn't the case.
So let's please drop the 25K subject and start doing what everybody else all over the world is doing: mourning over all the victims of these terrible attacks.
I feel sorry to read that you live in NYC. I hope you did not lose any friends, relatives or collegues. I also hope that you will find the peace of mind to somehow come to terms with Tuesday's terrible events.
I agree with Kicking and I suggest we drop this 25K issue for a while as the whole matter seems to have become utterly unimportant in the light of the past events. The SEC and other authorities will no doubt come up with all sorts of measures to ensure the stability of the American and World economy. Wether abolishing the 25K rule will be one of them is hard to say, and really at the moment I could not care less.
The interests of daytraders (as that's what we're talking about here) is not the SEC's main concern right now. Daytrading is by no means the motor of the American economy. The thought that the 25K rule might hamper its recovery seems to me ridiculous, and grossly overestimating the meaning of daytrading to the economy. Remember that behind every winner there's a loser, while nothing is being produced that could be of use to the economy. Economy is not only about money, it's also about goods and about people.
Let's not try and find a way to take advantage of the situation, by saying that the US economy needs small capital traders (not investors!) for its recovery, for imho that just isn't the case.
So let's please drop the 25K subject and start doing what everybody else all over the world is doing: mourning over all the victims of these terrible attacks.
Dear Investor:
Thank you for your comments to the SEC regarding the recent changes relating
to margin requirements for day trading.
We welcome hearing from you because we keep a database of information about
the complaints and inquiries we receive. This database allows us to track
whether a troubling situation may be developing about a particular issue,
company, broker, stock, or other securities product. The information you
have provided will be reflected in our database.
In early 2000, the New York Stock Exchange proposed changes to NYSE Rule
431, and the National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc. proposed
changes to NASD Rule 2520 to establish margin requirements for "pattern" day
trading. The NYSE and NASD separately published their proposals for public
comment. In both cases, the public comment period lasted 21 days, ending on
February 15, 2000, for the NYSE proposal and on March 10, 2000, for the NASD
proposal. The SEC continued to receive and place in the public file letters
commenting on the respective proposals after the comment periods closed.
When reviewing the NYSE and NASD proposals, the SEC considered all the
comment letters it had received, not only those that had been filed on time.
On February 27, 2001, the SEC approved rule changes proposed by the New York
Stock Exchange and NASD Regulation, Inc. aimed at imposing more stringent
margin requirements for day-trading customers. The effective date for the
implementation of the New York Stock Exchange's rules was August 27, 2001.
The NASD's rules go into effect on September 28, 2001. For more
information, please see the NASD's Notice to Members
(http://www.nasdr.com/pdf-text/0126ntm.txt) and the New York Stock
Exchange's Information Memo
(http://www.nyse.com/pdfs/im01-9Microsoft Word - Document in 01-9.
pdf).
A full discussion of the rationale for the changes as well as extended
discussion of the numerous comments both for and against the changes occurs
in the SEC Approval Order referenced on the NASDR website in the highlighted
item entitled Federal Register
(http://www.nasdr.com/pdf-text/rf00_03_app.pdf). If you would like to share
your views about the changes with the NYSE or NASD, please direct your
correspondence as follows:
NYSE:
New York Stock Exchange, Inc.
Office of the General Counsel
11 Wall Street
New York, NY 10005
Web: http://www.nyse.com
NASD:
National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc.
Office of the General Counsel
1735 K Street, NW
Washington, DC 20006
Web: http://ww.nasd.com
Once again, thank you for alerting us to your concerns. I hope this
information proves helpful.
Sincerely,
U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission
Office of Investor Education and Assistance
oiea@sec.gov
Thank you for your comments to the SEC regarding the recent changes relating
to margin requirements for day trading.
We welcome hearing from you because we keep a database of information about
the complaints and inquiries we receive. This database allows us to track
whether a troubling situation may be developing about a particular issue,
company, broker, stock, or other securities product. The information you
have provided will be reflected in our database.
In early 2000, the New York Stock Exchange proposed changes to NYSE Rule
431, and the National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc. proposed
changes to NASD Rule 2520 to establish margin requirements for "pattern" day
trading. The NYSE and NASD separately published their proposals for public
comment. In both cases, the public comment period lasted 21 days, ending on
February 15, 2000, for the NYSE proposal and on March 10, 2000, for the NASD
proposal. The SEC continued to receive and place in the public file letters
commenting on the respective proposals after the comment periods closed.
When reviewing the NYSE and NASD proposals, the SEC considered all the
comment letters it had received, not only those that had been filed on time.
On February 27, 2001, the SEC approved rule changes proposed by the New York
Stock Exchange and NASD Regulation, Inc. aimed at imposing more stringent
margin requirements for day-trading customers. The effective date for the
implementation of the New York Stock Exchange's rules was August 27, 2001.
The NASD's rules go into effect on September 28, 2001. For more
information, please see the NASD's Notice to Members
(http://www.nasdr.com/pdf-text/0126ntm.txt) and the New York Stock
Exchange's Information Memo
(http://www.nyse.com/pdfs/im01-9Microsoft Word - Document in 01-9.
pdf).
A full discussion of the rationale for the changes as well as extended
discussion of the numerous comments both for and against the changes occurs
in the SEC Approval Order referenced on the NASDR website in the highlighted
item entitled Federal Register
(http://www.nasdr.com/pdf-text/rf00_03_app.pdf). If you would like to share
your views about the changes with the NYSE or NASD, please direct your
correspondence as follows:
NYSE:
New York Stock Exchange, Inc.
Office of the General Counsel
11 Wall Street
New York, NY 10005
Web: http://www.nyse.com
NASD:
National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc.
Office of the General Counsel
1735 K Street, NW
Washington, DC 20006
Web: http://ww.nasd.com
Once again, thank you for alerting us to your concerns. I hope this
information proves helpful.
Sincerely,
U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission
Office of Investor Education and Assistance
oiea@sec.gov
In addition to all the arguments why this rule is no good, the SEC is very late to the party. All the daytraders that could get blown out already did during the 4 years of Inet mania and subsequent two years of collapse. If they really wanted to curb daytrading when it mattered, why didn't they act sooner? My guess is slow bureaucracy. But anyways. Let's setup a web page or something where we can voice our opposition to this rule and people can come and sign the "guestbook" kind of thing and voice their opinion. Then we could probably make SEC aware of that page. If we could get a significant number of people voicing their discontent with the rule, maybe the SEC would listen. But then again maybe not.
I'm 5000 miles away but Count me in..I'm more than willing to devote time and/or money to it......I'd rather see the ruling taken to task legally. or at least looked at by someone.
The examples that Fohat has previously pointed out are good examples of that.
I got the same "canned" response back from sec as dg2000.
Is there currently no Daytraders organisation/association in the US????
The examples that Fohat has previously pointed out are good examples of that.
I got the same "canned" response back from sec as dg2000.
Is there currently no Daytraders organisation/association in the US????
people and brokerages complained about it prior and after?!
Go to SEC website @ www.sec.gov and search for word "daytrading" http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/txt-srch-sec?text=daytrading or "daytrading accounts" http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/txt-srch-sec?text=daytrading+accounts&mode=Simple
And they still went along with it, very sad
Bob
Go to SEC website @ www.sec.gov and search for word "daytrading" http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/txt-srch-sec?text=daytrading or "daytrading accounts" http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/txt-srch-sec?text=daytrading+accounts&mode=Simple
And they still went along with it, very sad
Bob