Ok lets cut the crap and get to the point: IS OSTK going up or is going down, anyone has any clue?? Any pros here? We all can talk all day about the cubans and the matthews, but what use is it?
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Overstock.com Fights Naked Shorting
- Thread starter flytiger
- Start date
Quote from Babak:
check out Cuban's blog as well as Jeff Matthews' blog. Cuban in apparently short 10k and trying to find more to borrow.
Transcript of the Byrne rant:
http://jeffmatthewsisnotmakingthisup.blogspot.com/
no real secret ... (look at comment #24)
i actually prefer comment #9.
"9. Posted Aug 13, 2005, 9:26 PM ET by Bob O'Brien
Hey Mark.
Well, you can always be counted on to have an opinion. Tell me, do you know the 6 law firms involved in the suit against Rocker Partners and Gradient? Did you know that one of them has the ex-SEC naked short selling troubleshooting counsel (he left the SEC a few months ago), as well as the ex-state regulator for Utah and NV? Another has the former Houston FBI head investigating. Did you note that Giuliani, who put away Milken, is one of the partners of his law firm? Do these seem like lightweights to you?
I agree it was an entertaining call. I remember how fun Iran Contra was when the tiles started coming off that wreck, and how much eye rolling could be had from the establishment apologists in the early days, how much conspiracy mockery abounded - almost as much as greeted Woodward and Bernstein in Watergate.
Reminds me of the coordinated media response to this. The response is a time honored tradition, as noted above.
Byrne articulates a well researched, schematically organized stock manipulation scheme wherein the media has strategic elements co-opted, Kroll (next door neighbor to Einhorn) is instrumental in clandestine investigations, hedge fund groups leverage their entre to these media groups to disseminate their propaganda, and the whole machination is the coordinated vision of a guy who was convicted of that type of manipulation in the 1980's.
Huh.
So let me see if I understand this correctly. Your position is that there is no scheme? Because.....well, just because? I mean, we've seen similarly elaborate schemes from Milken in the 80's, and in Operation Bermuda Shorts with Mark Valentine in the 2000's, and Elgindy in the 2000's, but you just know this is BS because....help me out here, would you?
So fat we have seen several of the names mentioned as being co-opted by this network chime in - Herb, Carol Remond (whose "OSTK Facing SEC Probe" false and misleading headline which appeared during Friday's trading was modified to now read "OSTK subject of Feb. Probe"), and Jeff Michaels (a hedge fund manager and amateurish blog pundit who admits being short OSTK via puts, and acknowleges that he's buddies with Rocker and Cohodes and Herb), and a guy at Motley Fool who quotes Michaels as if he was the Messiah, along with Tony Ryals - and we all understand how credible Tony is. You seem to like Jeff and plug him as well. Small world, huh?
So you are in good company. All the hedge fund familiars and quislings are towing a carefully scripted party line - Byrne is a whack job - and now here you are towing the same line. What a coincidence. What a marvelously serendipitous world we live in.
Do you have any idea of the evidence the 6 legal teams and their investigators have assembled? You must have, as you are so quick to dismiss the possibility that Byrne is correct. Do you know the names that they have evidence on? The number of sworn affidavits? The hard facts that have been painstakingly assembled? Yes? Or no? Do they strike you as a frivolous and fun bunch?
Which part of the manipulation schematic do you disagree with? The notion that a group of reporters that live and work within a few miles of each other and know each other could be co-opted? That Einhorn's wife, who worked as an editor at Barron's until last month, couldn't have hooked up Alpert with David? That Eisinger, who knows Rocker and Cohodes and Herb from his days at Thestreet.com, is somehow not associated with these same names? That his neighbor, Kroll, wouldn't investigate targeted companies for them? That a guy whose MO in the eighties (if the speculations are true) involved precisely these sorts of highly structured and complex manipulations couldn't be doing it again? That wealthy investors in the funds (one of the names is precipitously from TX, the other from Chicago) don't act as conduits to their buddies at the regulators?
What part seems the most odd to you? That when large money is involved, and there is an industry that generates its dollars by preying on companies, that some of the more larcenous ones wouldn't hook up and pool their resources?
You indicated that you would be willing to break the law and naked short if you could figure out how - why do you have such a hard time understanding that others are just as willing to break the law and know how? Hint: Start a shell tomorrow, declare yourself to be a market maker, get certified as such (offshore is even easier, just claim to be one) and start selling! Or call one of hundreds of MM's that will sell for you. The NASD just filed charges against a MM that did just that for a bunch of hedge funds, so it isn't like it isn't done every day.
This is nothing new. Read some history of Wall Street. Stock manipulation pools were a big part of the scene in the 20's and 30's. Joe Kennedy made his fortune running pools. What Byrne is describing is nothing more than one of Jesse Livermore's pool-type manipulations updated to present day. It's all been done before. In fact, the history of Wall Street is littered with exactly the type of scheme Dr. Byrne outlines.
Kennedy went on to become the first chairman of the SEC, after running pools with names like Rockefeller, Dupont, Schwab, etc. invested in them - so why is the notion that the exact same thing is going on today so far fetched? It would be surprising if it wasn't, given the regulatory environment. All of these SRO's (self regulatory organizations) are looking the other way - kinda neat, given how trustworthy the industry has proven to be. Reflect upon the analyst scandal, the specialist scandal, the mutual fund scandal, the corporate accounting scandals...why, these guys are as honest as the day is long!!!
One of my favorite facts about SRO's and their claimed lack of requirement for any oversight is the NYSE. Back in the early Thirties when Congress was pushing for regulation of the markets, the NYSE led the charge against any, arguing that no misbehavior was going on, and that they were gentlemen capable of minding their own affairs.
The head of the NYSE at that time, and chief Wall Street spokesman, was Richard Whitney. Through his efforts and a lot of money spread around, the SEC's charter was watered down to the point where they didn't even have prosecution capability, and the stiff rules in the original bill were tossed in favor of vague language allowing the Commission to make rules down the road.
What is ironic is that Whitney was convicted in 1938 of embezzling his client funds during that entire self righteous period, and went to Sing Sing for five to ten.
That is the history of The Street. Stock manipulation pools run by criminal minds and funded by a who's who of society. An ethic where the pros on the street are there to fleece speculators (the general public). A deliberately toothless regulator that was established to "restore investor confidence in the markets" - not to actually do anything that deserved confidence.
So either you know all this and are ignoring it, or you don't, and thus are ignorant of the lay of the land. You are a bright guy, so I'll go with the former.
Byrne is a bright guy too. He has a savvy legal team that understands what he is embarking on, with some of the top players in the business researching things for him. He does not do things in half measures, as long as I've known him. And he doesn't say things unless he has the data to back it up. I would not be so glib to dismiss his concerns.
BTW, I already have the fiction book in the can, and am currently writing the non-fiction history of the market with an explanation of the moving parts for the layman, and a large section will be on this episode.
You really can't make this stuff up.
And this will, in hindsight, prove to be one of the bigger bomb blasts to hit Wall Street in our generation.
As an aside, if you really are short, I have one question for you: Since Byrne and his family and friends and sympathetic institutions own somewhere around 120% of all genuine shares, where are you planning to get the shares you'll need to cover? And what is your cover price, where you admit that it isn't worth it anymore?
If you want more color on the whole thing, read the ncans.net news over the last week and the Sanity Check blog - you are correct that it is the best show in town, by far.
And we do have ringside seats.
I have a feeling that the best is yet to come."
16 Aug 2005 12:16 ET DJ Pres Buys 14,500 Of OVERSTOCK.COM INC >OSTK
SOURCE: Form 4
ISSUER: OVERSTOCK.COM INC
SYMBOL: OSTK
FILER: BYRNE PATRICK M
TITLE: President
DATE TRANSACTION SHARES PRICE VALUE
8/15/05 Purchase 14,500 $46.88 $679,777
OWNERSHIP: 1,020,272 (Direct)
The Form 4 is filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission by insiders
to report transactions in their companies' shares. Open market purchases
and sales must be reported within two business days of the transaction.
Insider Data Source: The Washington Service
(info@washingtonservice.com or 301-913-5100)
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 16, 2005 12:16 ET (16:16 GMT)
16 Aug 2005 12:17 ET DJ Pres Buys 5,500 Of OVERSTOCK.COM INC >OSTK
SOURCE: Form 4
ISSUER: OVERSTOCK.COM INC
SYMBOL: OSTK
FILER: BYRNE PATRICK M
TITLE: President
DATE TRANSACTION SHARES PRICE VALUE
8/15/05 Purchase 5,500 $47.28 $260,013
OWNERSHIP: 1,025,772 (Direct) 5,396,865 (Indirect)
The Form 4 is filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission by insiders
to report transactions in their companies' shares. Open market purchases
and sales must be reported within two business days of the transaction.
Insider Data Source: The Washington Service
(info@washingtonservice.com or 301-913-5100)
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 16, 2005 12:17 ET (16:17 GMT)
SOURCE: Form 4
ISSUER: OVERSTOCK.COM INC
SYMBOL: OSTK
FILER: BYRNE PATRICK M
TITLE: President
DATE TRANSACTION SHARES PRICE VALUE
8/15/05 Purchase 14,500 $46.88 $679,777
OWNERSHIP: 1,020,272 (Direct)
The Form 4 is filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission by insiders
to report transactions in their companies' shares. Open market purchases
and sales must be reported within two business days of the transaction.
Insider Data Source: The Washington Service
(info@washingtonservice.com or 301-913-5100)
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 16, 2005 12:16 ET (16:16 GMT)
16 Aug 2005 12:17 ET DJ Pres Buys 5,500 Of OVERSTOCK.COM INC >OSTK
SOURCE: Form 4
ISSUER: OVERSTOCK.COM INC
SYMBOL: OSTK
FILER: BYRNE PATRICK M
TITLE: President
DATE TRANSACTION SHARES PRICE VALUE
8/15/05 Purchase 5,500 $47.28 $260,013
OWNERSHIP: 1,025,772 (Direct) 5,396,865 (Indirect)
The Form 4 is filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission by insiders
to report transactions in their companies' shares. Open market purchases
and sales must be reported within two business days of the transaction.
Insider Data Source: The Washington Service
(info@washingtonservice.com or 301-913-5100)
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
August 16, 2005 12:17 ET (16:17 GMT)
Who's down that much?:eek:
D Rocker spoke at a CFA conference in December and transcript has just been made available to CFA members. The text is "all rights reserved" so to be safe I can't post here. However, if someone is interested I'm happy to pass along selected excerpts tangentially relevant to OSTK - happy to pass along in PM for personal consumption only.
If you want, let me know.
*He never mentions OSTK but talks about his shorting strategy overall, and discusses several other firms in a historical context, including Taser, Boston Chicken, Krispy Creme, etc. Also discusses relationships with managements, analysts and media ...
If you want, let me know.
*He never mentions OSTK but talks about his shorting strategy overall, and discusses several other firms in a historical context, including Taser, Boston Chicken, Krispy Creme, etc. Also discusses relationships with managements, analysts and media ...
Quote from BlueHorseshoe:
D Rocker spoke at a CFA conference in December and transcript has just been made available to CFA members. The text is "all rights reserved" so to be safe I can't post here. However, if someone is interested I'm happy to pass along selected excerpts tangentially relevant to OSTK - happy to pass along in PM for personal consumption only.
If you want, let me know.
you can paraphrase.... all rights reserved only pertains to the actual text.