Outstanding article must read.

[Scataphagos]

Quote from nitro:

So is the ultimate answer that this country is doomed even if we innovate, because the thing that generates lots of jobs on the order of hundreds of thousands per innovation is the actual manufacturing of the end product? (INTC CPUs are made in Mexico and Malasya if I remember correctly)

I think this is close to 100% correct. Sure, we will "come up with something"... lots of things, actually. But with the labor cost differential between here and low labor cost countries, we'll never get the lion's share of the benefit.

America's middle class grew in a rather enclosed system. Things were made here and consumed here. There wasn't a genuine alternative.

Then, I guess beginning with NAFTA when outsourcing got rolling in a big way, bringing 500 million former peasants into the labor force to compete for our 20-30 million middle class jobs really turned our situation on its head.

Seems the BEST we're going to be able to do is to find a minimum-wage type job for the majority of displaced workers... and newcomers to the work force, as well.

The theme of the Depression will be, "Not enough jobs for everybody...not even minimum wage ones".

Consider that against (1) our desires for a bigger and stronger middle class, (2) tax receipts vs. budget shortfalls at all levels of government, and (3) government's attempt to "paper over" the shortfalls.... and well, the outlook is dire.

Hope I'm wrong, of course.

 

[SNBthetrue]

Quote from bidask:

wrong. it goes to the people who can copy it and produce it more cheaply.

This is what will lead you to war, even if it isn't anymore their interest because they are more creative than you could imagine... the first one to get free energy will rulez all the other... !

 

[bidask]

what! did u know 95% of all microsoft windows used in china is pirated? this is just one example. who's getting busted?

Quote from Sodajerk:

Which is whoever holds the patent, copyright or trademark that they earned through the labor of their innovation. All others get busted for piracy, which isn't cheap (or shouldn't be).

 

[piezoe]

Quote from risktaker:

Think how many R&D labs the BS "stimulus" would've created.

Instead, you give the money to crooked bankers & wall st crooks, give cash for clunkers so idiots can buy Japanese & Korean cars, encourage people to consume & buy more Chinese stuff and then how the HELL are good-paying jobs supposed to be formed/retained in the US???

1. Consume LESS.
2. Better/cheaper access to education WITHOUT loans!
3. Value added tax of 20% like in Europe.
4. Get population serious about *producing* instead of wasting so much on bs wall st-related unproductive rip-offs.
5. Don't repeat stupid mistakes of last 8 years. Housing does not improve a country's economy. It brings in no foreign exchange. In fact, instead of helping it led into huge spending on imported shit further depreciating $$$. You can go on & on but so far Obama is going nowhere. He's stalled & come Jan 1st it's another crisis!

As things stand now, virtually everyone who wants to, and is willing to work for it, can get either a college or trade school education regardless of means.

But many people, though they say they want an education, think that going through the motions, even if by chance they actually graduate, is all that's required. They don't want to put in the hard work required to become educated in either liberal arts or the trades.

Perhaps it is time to put more responsibility and accountability on students and less on teachers and institutions!

If education after junior high became more of a privilege and less of a right, as it used to be, and still is elsewhere, then perhaps we would get better results.

I don't know if this is true, but what is being done now does not seem to work well.

 

[gottatrade]

We all want to be the "eaters", we'll get robots to do all the work for us (starting with the Chinese), and we'll just hang around the orgasmatron all day.

Need a leader...

 

[piezoe]

Quote from donnap:

Yes, good post. The easiest way to "create" millions of jobs is to give American jobs to Americans. We no longer need any imported labor. Duh.

The Government is so controlled by foreign elements that it won't take the steps necessary to help the average American have a better chance of finding a job, but they will give billions to Global Corporations. Fubar.

Americans, in return, should realize that our living standard will be lower, we are not entitled to the BS 'American Dream," and only hard work builds strong countries, not lazy cry babies.

It is no secret that there are no longer enough U.S. citizens going into science and engineering graduate programs to satisfy the demand. These disciplines require too much dedicated study for the income one can earn upon graduation compared with say degrees in finance, business, or medicine. The result is that many of our top science and engineering programs are populated with foreign students who are willing to put in the necessary hard work.

Consequently, if you want to hire only "Americans" for some of these highly technical jobs you will end up with a low level of competence or else have to pay considerably higher salaries to attract good American students into these fields. I don't think American corporations are ready to do that.

 

[Anaconda]

Quote from Kassz007:

Have you taken any economics classes? Protectionism is the worst thing for an economy. Think the Great Depression...

You're a proven idiot who spewing nonsense because it is too much stress on your tiny brain to actually think.

Great Depression was not caused by protectionism but by a rampant growth of money supply and subsequent sharp contraction of it.

Protectionism, contrary to the academics, does work and has worked. Like USA during the Industrialization era and Japan during its boom years, as well as currently. Protecting the nation's manufacturing base is key.

 

[piezoe]

We are in a global economy and to survive we must learn to compete. There are ways to do that that do not involve cheap labor. We don't have cheap labor. We must learn other ways.

There is a great lesson to be learned from the transformation of Du Pont during the 1970's.

Prior to Irving Shipiro, the first non-technical person to head Dupont, and a lawyer, the company was arguably the most innovative corporation the world has known. Prior to Shipiro, Du Pont had a tremendous effort in basic research at its Wilmington DE experiment station. The list of Du Pont innovations that came from basic research is staggering and the company had a tradition of hiring the cream of the crop of American Ph.D. chemists, and chemical engineers. At least one of their chemists, maybe two, won the Nobel prize. A very much appended list of DuPont inventions includes cellophane, rayon, dacron, duco lacquers, neoprene, nylon, teflon, mylar, orlon, freons, lycra, delrin, kevlar, nomex,tyvek, latex paints and on and on.

However, during the recession and energy crisis of the 1970's Shipiro was elevated to President of the company at a time when their debt needed urgent restructuring. Shipiro promptly began a shift in research emphasis from basic to product oriented. He wanted his scientists to work on projects that would soon impact the bottom line. Ph.D. scientists involved in basic research were laid off at the beginning of his reign. Whereas from 1902 to 1973, when Shipiro took over, du Pont's growth exceeded the GNP. By the time Shipiro stepped down in 1981 du Pont grew no faster than the GNP. Although Shipiro brought the company through a difficult time, and it is still one of the great chemical companies of the world, in my opinion, du Pont's basic research program has never quite recovered from damage done by Shipiro's short-sighted emphasis on the here and now and the bottom line.

Perhaps the history of DuPont is in some measure the history of industry in the United States as business types took over the reigns of highly technical corporations and insisted on ever increasing quarterly earnings to the detriment of long range goals.

Feel free to fill in your own examples. I can think of several more.

 

[S2007S]

Quote from Kassz007:

+1

Great points. To those who "can't see where any new jobs will be created", read this man's post. Of course you can't see where new jobs will be created! New inventions, technological advancements, innovation etc. will fuel new jobs. You cannot see them now because they have not been created yet.

I didn't read the entire article but I think the jist of it is that we need to fund research in order to create new jobs. I think this is 100% correct.

Wake me from my sleep when you find out where these innovations might be, please show me the jobs that will help the economy on the road to recovery.

Millions of jobs created over the last 2 decades will never exist again, the only way the u.s. economy will grow is by means of bubbles, bubbles seem the only way the u.s. can grow in its own fantasy world. If the fed had taken a few steps back and didn't take rates down and create boat loads of liquidity then maybe I could say there was a chance the u.s. economy could grow without the help of low interest rates and monopoly money injections into the system.

Believe me,

THIS TIME.............

ITS DIFFERENT.....................

 

[aegis]

Quote from piezoe:

It is no secret that there are no longer enough U.S. citizens going into science and engineering graduate programs to satisfy the demand. These disciplines require too much dedicated study for the income one can earn upon graduation compared with say degrees in finance, business, or medicine. The result is that many of our top science and engineering programs are populated with foreign students who are willing to put in the necessary hard work.

Well, then stop giving these jobs to H-1B's who are willing to work for peanuts. The demand for these positions will rise along with the pay as it should. An engineering major should be able to earn more than a business major, but that certainly hasn't been the case in recent years. Why would anyone pursue a degree in one of the most difficult areas of study to earn the same salary as an accountant or a nurse?

There needs to be an incentive within the system to attract talented people to these fields. As of right now, those incentives aren't there. Engineer's salaries top out early in their career, and a good percentage change careers after 10-15 years. There must be a good reason for this. Upper management in America has always viewed engineers as just a notch above skilled labor.