Our Next President

[monty21]

Quote from Yannis:

So, you decided, that after 9/11/01, it's better to hide under a bed, take drugs and hope they don't hurt you? And then, istead of voting for the Republican nominee, you will vote for the guy who's at the opposite side of the political spectrum? And you think that makes sense? Your words look very confused to me, but, at any rate, good luck man, all the best to you

I will vote for anyone that is against the war. The world is now a more dangerous place because of the war. We must also change our foriegn policy. We are already a rich enough country and do not need to imperialize other parts of the world. You must ask yourself why these terrorists attack us in the first place. The honest answer to this question is complicated but mainly revolves around our foreign policy which advocates that we go into other countries and mess with their affairs. More bluntly, our support of Israel is very costly. We are marganilizing the Palestinians and the religion of Islam.

Furthermore, WE ARE NOT EVEN GOING AFTER THE TERRORISTS. Ok, so Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan and we seemingly removed them from power. But what about IRAQ? They had no involvement with 9/11. Most of the hijackers were from Saudia Arabia. Bin Ladin is Saudi himself. However, we LOVE the Saudi's and their authoratarian government. The War on Terror is nothing more than a disguse to go after the personal interests of the Neo-Cons that are in charge in Bush's administration.

We should protect our own borders, instead of policing the world. 9/11 is a sensitive subject to me. I live on Long Island, and my mom works in the city, but luckily nothing happened to her. Still, the attacks should be blamed on our foreign policy. We need to stop entangling in other countries affairs. We promote democracy, but this is all bullshit. Our CIA supports military leaders, such as Pakistan Musharaffs. We helped him overthrow a democratic government, and put a military dictator in power. We do the same all over South America. One thing I should add is that the Bush senior's adminstration put Al Qaeda in power in the first place. The U.S. military trained Al Qaeda troops and its coming back to haunt us now.

My point about switching to the Democrats is that at least they plan to withdraw from Iraq within several years. If McCain were president, he would send more troops to the Middle East. Plus we can expect to see a conflict with Iran. I rather America be a welfare state, than a country that invades and occupies other countries at the cost of the economy. We can't sustain an empire.

My views are not confused. You may disagree with my rationalization but I am very informed about what is going on in the world. Maybe my interpretation differs from yours, but I believe that I have a logical approach. I am in my senior year in college and major in Political Science. I minor in International Relations. I am not making up any conspiracy theories. America is a modern empire. If we continue to mess with the world, we will decline. The same happened in Great Britain and the Soviet Union (war in Afghanistan).

 

[Yannis]

Monty,

What I believe is that they would have attacked us no matter what, because we are the strongest, richest, biggest presence on the globe. They (Islamist extremists) want domination on the whole Earth, we just want free exchange of goods and services: keep your precious oil, but, let me sell you something to buy the oil from you.

WWII happened because after WWI we left Germany destitute and alone (actually, France did that, we were still isolationists for the most part) and a great power vacuum developed in Germany. Then, Hitler promised to take them out of extreme poverty and uncertainty. He attacked his neighbors and we did nothing until he had conquered half of Europe. Oh well.

After WWII, we stayed in Germany, Italy, Japan, etc to make sure they develop safely, but then left them alone when they were safe. These countries are grateful to us now.

Iraq was not responsible for 9/11 directly, but for many years Saddam was the chief spokesman for tarrorism, even paying large sums of money to the families of those who blew up civilians in Israel, Lebanon, etc. He told everyone that he had WMD to the extent that the UN, CIA and the British (and everyone else) believed him. On top of that, he was butchering his own people in an open way. A few years after the first Iraq war, we could not tolerate the danger any more, that's all. The war was successful in that we removed him and installed a democratic government in his place, the first real one there ever.

I personally am against war, all wars. At the same time I don't think that this war was any less justified than WWII. And if we leave prematurely, millions of Iraqis will suffer and die in the power vacuum that will develop.

Not to mention that Iran is developing into a real threat for the whole world. Do you think they hate us because we went to Iraq? Look at that regime, just look at them. What do they have in common with freedom and democracy in the Middle East or anywhere else?

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from maxpi:

Clowns like Rev. Wright and Civil Rights attorneys like Obama are America's Blacks worst nightmare..... if the Blacks in the USA hate the man and hate the police and refuse to help them rid the hoods of crime, well then they will be ruled over by Mobsters forever, as they are now. If every black prospective employee comes with the multi million dollar lawsuit threat that Obama made his money from, well they won't be hired..... as they now are not....

Whites don't have to hate Blacks at all, they can sit back and giggle if they like I suppose, just don't tell anybody what's so funny........ they might send some gangsta's..

===================

Excellent points Maxi;
but i don't think Senator Barak Hussein's main problems are Rev Wright or Rev Wrong.It's voting records & his insults against Believers, & Believers in 2nd Amendment......

Even more fun now as PBS/Bill Moyers sneers @ computer literate voters/posters.LOL

Should be a fun race, many in media are attempting excluding /smearing Senator McCain & his tax cuts;
& treating Senator Clinton as badly as they tend to treat conservative or Christian Republicans., or pro life Democrats.

 

[SteveD]

Monty, I don't think you are confused....I think you are just ignorant of historical facts....

Japan killed 1 MILLION Chinese....Nazi and Red Army you know about.....

You are willing to allow the Islam world to eradicate the Jews as I understand you correctly...

Iraq, if left alone, would now control the Arabia Pennisula...Saddam's goal was to be the leader of all Arabia...


America is not an empire....never has been....

SteveD

 

[rubibond007]

America is not an empire....never has been.....

100% right!

 

[Gord]

Quote from SteveD:

America is not an empire....never has been....

Ditto.

America spreads democracy and capitalism, which equals freedom. It insures these ideologies by stationing military bases in conquered countries and in strategic allied countries. Ask Germany, Japan, S. Korea, Kuwait, and a dozen other countries with American military bases if they want them to leave - their answers would be no.

 

[Hydroblunt]

Quote from Yannis:

Mc Cain is just a wise old man who can really lead this nation to even further greatness and prosperity.

LMAO at the stupidity.

And to think, there are thousands upon thousands of sheep like this. Mind baffling.

This nation is beyond hope.

P.S. Spare the liberal nonsense, I say the same stuff about Obama & Hilton's idiot supporters.

 

[monty21]

Quote from SteveD:

Monty, I don't think you are confused....I think you are just ignorant of historical facts....

Japan killed 1 MILLION Chinese....Nazi and Red Army you know about.....

You are willing to allow the Islam world to eradicate the Jews as I understand you correctly...

Iraq, if left alone, would now control the Arabia Pennisula...Saddam's goal was to be the leader of all Arabia...


America is not an empire....never has been....

SteveD

1. Creation of Israel was a huge mistake because it has marginized the Palestians that possessed that land. Middle eastern countries see this as a sign of western domination and imperialism. I understand the Holocaust was a devestating tragedy, but that does not allow the Jews to regain a piece of land in which other natives are currently living their. Also, the bible is not a legal document

Another thing, the Jews were not the only group of people that were persecuted. How come Gypsies did not receive any pieces of land?

Ideally, all religions should share the territory that is modernly known as the country of Israel. We must understand, however, that the Palestianians continue to be marginized. In the 1950s when Jews made of 10% of the population, they had 80% of the power because thats how the political structure was created. It was completely unfair, and although the Palestinians have regained some of that power, they continue to be pushed off their land.

2. I disagree with the Iraq statement. Also, do you mean control by invasion/occupation or by influence. America dominates that region by both hard power and soft power. Why would it be wrong if Iraq had soft power in the region? Why must America go rob their oil and instill Western ways of thinking? You cannot be so ignorant to say that democracy is always the best political system.

3. America is not an empire in the definition we know (such as Great Britain was), but it certainly expands its influence. You must realize we do it not for the good of the people, but for selfish regions. Otherwise, why arent we in Sudan making peace between the groups that are so gruesomly killing eachother. We didn't need UN resolution to go into Iraq and stop an "evil" dictator. If we cared, we would send our military to ensure peace in Africa. Also, their are many evil rulers, like Saddam, but we do not do anything to them. Such as the case in Zimbabwe and the corruption of Mugabe. If we have an interest there, however, then we might go in.

 

[monty21]

Quote from Gord:

Ditto.

America spreads democracy and capitalism, which equals freedom. It insures these ideologies by stationing military bases in conquered countries and in strategic allied countries. Ask Germany, Japan, S. Korea, Kuwait, and a dozen other countries with American military bases if they want them to leave - their answers would be no. 1

Wow, America spreads Democracy? In the case of Pakistan, the U.S. gov't helped Musharaff, a military dictator, overthrow an elected/democratic government. The country possesses nukes and is extremely unstable.

The CIA has been involved in a number of similar overthrowing strategies throughout South America for the past several decades as well.

Also, think about how democratic we our ourselves. Think about the 2000 election and the situation in Florida. Im a Republican, but what happened there was pitiful.

In regards to freedom, we are less free now than we were in the 1990s. After 9/11 all of these ridiculous policies aimed at "fighting terrorism" have shrunk our civil liberties. Think about the patriot act, Guantanamo Bay, and the creation of Homeland Security (resembles a Gustapo or secret police).

On a final note, I would like to ask countries such as Germany and Japan whether they enjoy having the American military on their soil.

 

[monty21]

Quote from Yannis:

Monty,

What I believe is that they would have attacked us no matter what, because we are the strongest, richest, biggest presence on the globe. They (Islamist extremists) want domination on the whole Earth, we just want free exchange of goods and services: keep your precious oil, but, let me sell you something to buy the oil from you.

WWII happened because after WWI we left Germany destitute and alone (actually, France did that, we were still isolationists for the most part) and a great power vacuum developed in Germany. Then, Hitler promised to take them out of extreme poverty and uncertainty. He attacked his neighbors and we did nothing until he had conquered half of Europe. Oh well.

After WWII, we stayed in Germany, Italy, Japan, etc to make sure they develop safely, but then left them alone when they were safe. These countries are grateful to us now.

Iraq was not responsible for 9/11 directly, but for many years Saddam was the chief spokesman for tarrorism, even paying large sums of money to the families of those who blew up civilians in Israel, Lebanon, etc. He told everyone that he had WMD to the extent that the UN, CIA and the British (and everyone else) believed him. On top of that, he was butchering his own people in an open way. A few years after the first Iraq war, we could not tolerate the danger any more, that's all. The war was successful in that we removed him and installed a democratic government in his place, the first real one there ever.

I personally am against war, all wars. At the same time I don't think that this war was any less justified than WWII. And if we leave prematurely, millions of Iraqis will suffer and die in the power vacuum that will develop.

Not to mention that Iran is developing into a real threat for the whole world. Do you think they hate us because we went to Iraq? Look at that regime, just look at them. What do they have in common with freedom and democracy in the Middle East or anywhere else?

Im sorry, do you really think that the radical islamists bombed us because we are FREE and PROSPEROUS?

I think a much more logical answer would be that we intefer with the internal affairs of their countries.

Furthermore, we have extremists like the Evangelicals in our own country as well. They have so much clout in the Bush administration. They support all the war and dieing in the Middle East because it suggests that the Rapture (end of the world) is coming (as according to the book of revelation and the story with Israel, etc). The Christian Right is so powerful and their ideology is ridiculous. Still, our president is a born again Christian.

Also, please explain why we do not go into Saudi Arabia in this "war on terror"? Most of the suicide bombers on 9/11 were Saudi. Bin Ladin is Saudi. Lastly, they are not a democracy. They are the most fundamentally Muslim country in the world. Woman have no rights in that country. We have great relations with those Saudi princes, who have also many links to terrorism activities.